Friday, March 22, 2019

Uses of Shatawari(Asparagus racemosus) for health management according to #Ayurveda


Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group:
Disclaimer:
All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.
(Any ayurveda or medical doctor, If you like this activity, and wants to be a part of this chat discussion on whatsapp, please send in your request by email to admin@ayulink.com Thank you.)
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Next topic for discussion: Uses of Shatawari(Asparagus racemosus) for health management according to #Ayurveda
Vd. Hardik bhatt:shatavari is very good for pitt shaman. in burning micturationshatavarikshirpak is best medicine.
Dr. Rachanaben:Shatavari is very goodstanyajanan and pitta shamak .It is also bruhaniya. Shatavarikshirpakalso  used excessive uterine bleeding
Dr. Jyoti Ashok: we give shatavarikalpathrough out pregnancy & even after delivery.
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Croatia Branko Markovic: Very good in case of building immunity and in case like HPV virus, cyst, and dysmenorrhea as well menorrhagia. During menopause with excess sweating nervousness, anxiety..
Dr Mario Herrera: Does shatavari has any use in glucose alterations?
Shahil H Bhavsar:Shatavari comes underbalyavargadravya, Shukrajanandravya, Shatavari is madhurarasmadhurvipak and shit virya drug. It is also vaysthapan and medhya drug
Dr. Rachanaben: A 23yr old female c/o menorrhagia since ever she got periods. She approached gynac, she use to take birth control pills to have regular and normal bleeding. I gave her kshirpak of
Shatavari, Ashok and lodhra.She took these medicines for 3 months. Now she is not having any complaint regarding menstruation. Powders used by me were of herbal hills
Gary Yuen: there are some known antibacterial activities of shatavari but I'm not sure of antiviral. viral immunity and immunity in general likely is enhanced by shatavari, but perhaos more so in regulating gut bacteria and promoting CD4 cell generation. That's my feeling though maybe it has antiviral properties.
The chinese use a very closely related plant, asparagus cochinchinensis. similar usages, sometimes there are traditional foods such as a it mixed with sugar.There is also traditional recipe similar to kitchari, rice, dal, sesame, a bit of sugar, and asparagus.They call it tianmendong, winter gate of heaven. they too consider it significant. of that porridge/kitchari: described as "for those who always feel dizzy or for people with blurring vision and tinnitus. In addition, it improves soreness of waist, neurasthenia, and constipation." some of those uses might be more attributed to the dal, though the addition of asparagus helps.
Dr. Pritam Veer: Quantity of dravya and its preparation in details.
Shatavari-NarayaniA very good source of calcium,Medyarasayan, Mainly it's vaatshamak. Its useful in female bcz it is said to be a hormoneregulator.So we give it in all types of menstrual disorders. In menopause also if we continue with shatavarikshirpak daily no need to take any other medicine. It regulates mood swings , hormonal imbalance , balances vat pitta kafa. Also in menopause a female suffers from osteo arthritis. Shatavari is good for that also. I recommend shatavarikshirpaak in diabetic person and shatavarikalp in non diabetics.
Dr. Rachanaben: I told her to prepare kshirpaaktraditionally as mentioned in texts but she lives in london so not possible for her. So she used to take 1 tea spoon each powder in hot milk. All together three times with hot milk. The only fault with shatavari is its taste
Dr. Pritam Veer:Yeah, so I go for.  ShatavariKalp.
Dr. Rachanaben: Only shatavarikshirpaak you cant take. U can add prakshepdravya with it like ela. Shatavarikalpa is good for feeding mothers but not so good with bleeeding disorders. On my experience.Others can share their experience with shatavarikalpa
Vd. Hardik bhatt:How to make shatavarikalp..?
Dr. Rachanaben: I use shatavarikalpa of dhutpapeshwar
Dr. Pritam Veer: I prepare on my own.
Shahil H Bhavsar:Is shatavarikalp is the similar to shatavari granules?
Dr. Pritam Veer: Yes, One and the same
Dr. Rachanaben:Dhutpapeshwar comes in form of granules
Dr. Anita Phadatare: Any proovedAyurvedic treatment in case of low AMH level
Brazil Anália Meirelles: Shatawari to increase uteru's health.
Dr. Samir Suneri:Shatavri powder with misri and milk is very fast acting drug for lactation. Shatavri useful part is root. It's promote fertility and good for female reproductive system
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: It isvery effectiveRaktastambhakaninDooshitRaktasraava.SHATAVARI CHURNA KSHEERAPAKA  + GHEE should be      given.
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Compiled by - Dr. Dhruti Kagrana


BPH (Benign prostatic hyperplasia) #Ayurveda


Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group:
Disclaimer:
All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.
(Any ayurveda or medical doctor, If you like this activity, and wants to be a part of this chat discussion on whatsapp, please send in your request by email to admin@ayulink.com Thank you.)
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Next topic of discussion:BPH (Benign prostatic hyperplasia) #Ayurveda
Vd. Shrinidhi:Ashteela  description closely resembles BPH(one among 13 type mutraghata). In Ashteela  due to swelling (generally mobile) it obstructs urine and faeces.
Dr.Piyush Dodiwadiya: BPH- Generally the weight of prostate considered for surgery. If it is more than 50 gmsBut many times symptoms not relate to weight. The site of the growth of prostate is mai cause for symptoms. If growth is towards urethra that is medially growth then symptoms will aggravates. If it is laterally then , may be pt will symptoms free.
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Croatia Branko Markovic: Good prevention is to take every morning 1 table spoon of pumpkin seed oil or powder of pumpkin seeds. It is good for all man over 45. Medicines like bangshil, GokshuradiGuggulu showed good results.
Dr. Pritam Veer: BPH is mutrasthila. Mutragranthi.
Treatment :Gokshuradiguggul, Gomutraharitaki, Chandraprabha, Panchtiktaghrutguggul, Gokshurghrut, Bastyamayantakghrut, Varunadikadha, Veertaraadyasawa.
Basti- Niruh-erandmulaadi, Anuwasan - pippalyadi.Anuwasantel
Have given uttarbasti also.Anuwasan with Bastyamayantakghrut- got instant results.
Nabhipuran - with gandhakdruti.Ahar, viharpathya.
Also shwetparpati which is best for mutravahastrotasvyadhi.Yavkshar.
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: A condition in which a non-cancerous growth of the prostate gland makes urination frequent, difficult and uncomfortable is called benign prostatic hypertrophy (BPH).
BPH are closely resembles with the clinical featutes of Ashtheela. It is one of the 13 types of  Mutraghata (obstructive uropathies) described in Ayurveda. Ashtheela is a mobile and elevated swelling, which obstructs the passage of urine and faeces. Generally vataprakopakaAhara (like dry, cold and light food in insufficient quantities) and vihara (like starvation, over exertion and suppression of urine) aggravate vatadosha which leads to Ashtheela (Paurushagranthivrddhi - Prostate gland enlargement)
Clinical features:
1. Frequent urination, especially at night
2. Urgency of urination
3. Hesitancy and intermittency
4. Leaking or dribbling of urine
5. Interrupted weak stream
6. Bladder pain/ dysuria
7. Urine incontinence
8. Prolonged emptying
9. Urine retention (in severe BPH)
10. Hematuria
Complications
1. Urinary tract infections
2. Urinary stones
3. Blood in the urine
4. Hydronephrosis
5. Urinary retention
Investigations/Examination
1. Digital rectal Examination
2. Urine analysis
3. Ultrasound : Kidney, Ureter, Bladder
4. Cystoscopy
5. Serum Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA) Blood test
6. Prostate Biopsy
7. Uroflowmetry
Advice the patient to
-  Urinate when ever the urge and at regular intervals
-  Take plenty of fluids, but in divided quantities at regular intervals
-  Try to evacuate bladder completely
-  Practice of kegel exercise:  simply tighten and relax the pubo-coccygeus muscles for 3 seconds about 20-30 times a day for strengthening the pelvic floor
-  Avoid alcohol and caffee, especially after dinner.
- Try to avoid decongestants and antihistamines, which can worsen BPH symptoms
REF: https://www.nhp.gov.in/ashtheela-b-p-h_mtl
Dr. Pritam Veer: Its cancerouss also
Dr. Arvind Shahane:Bangshil 2—2,Fortage 2—2,Alarcin PHARMA
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani:Mutraghata are 12 n numbers. In BPH, Chandraprabhavati, GokshuradiGugglu ,Varunadikwath give excellent result
Vd. Hardik bhatt: URAL BPH (BAN PHARMA).. IS ALSO VERY GOOD MEDICINE .WHAT ABOUT uttarbasti ROLE IN BPH..?? SHARE RESULT..
Gary Yuen: What is the cause? Looking at modern medicine, it is diet. Excess of animal products. So far foods studied to reduce risk: garlic onion dal flax seed. Flax has secondary names uma and himavat, denoting ancient importance. Carakai think notes it can affect visuon, meaning heavy? If it is a question of immunity and ojas, and shows similarities with cancer, treatment is like for ojas : dal, yava, maybe gavedukha, brassicas at least according to modern medicine. Cauliflower and radish, but classical black mustard and moringa are stronger. Garlic onion.Rasayanas. Etc. Every topic discussed is easily treated with classical diet.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: In AstodariyaAdhyaya(where classification of rogas is given), Mutraghata classified in 8 numbers. So according to Charaka, Mutraghata are 8. According to susrutaMutraghata are 12.
Dr. Rajendra Joshi:Cap.ural BPH is useful in prostate
Vd. Ashish Kumar:शिलाजीत
Nitin Shah:A herb- saw palmetto.
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Compiled by - Dr. Dhruti Kagrana



Wednesday, March 6, 2019

Uses of Turmeric(Curcuma longa) for health management according to #Ayurveda


Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group:
Disclaimer:
All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.
(Any ayurveda or medical doctor, If you like this activity, and wants to be a part of this chat discussion on whatsapp, please send in your request by email to admin@ayulink.com Thank you.)
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Next topic for discussion: Uses of Turmeric(Curcuma longa) for health management according to #Ayurveda
Vd. Hardik bhatt: Turmeric powder for local application for swelling.
Shahil H Bhavsar: Turmeric is haridra
Rasa-mainly katu
Guna-laghu ruksha
Vipak-katu
It is used as mainly as rakta shodan drug
It is included in Lekhaniya, Kushthaghna And vishaghna gana of charak.
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Ayulink Ayurveda: Haridra khanda is most common formulation used in skin diseases
17400: Turmeric along with tulsi have a rapid effect... On swelling. Also in allergic condition, Visha , Haridra Khanda is used. Haridra churn+arka ksheera best for piles, local application. हरिद्रा प्रमेह हरणं। ashtang hridaya, it will decrease prameha. Nishamalaki choorna is one among best medicaments given for prameha, nisha is nothing but synonyms of Haridra. Believed to be fight against cancer.
Dr. Pritam Veer: Turmeric is antiseptic anti infective , expectorant. Haridra khand we use in itchy skin diseases. Nisha teil used for local application for most of skin diseases. Haridra along with Amalaki rasayan kal used in Prameh. Rajanyadi churn used in Balrog Fever in kids.
Dr. V B. Maheshwari: Is single nisha-aamalaki is sufficient with nidan parivarjana for madhumeh?
Dr. Pritam Veer: It's rasayan aushadhi
Dr. V B. Maheshwari: As supportive we can use.
Dr. Pritam Veer:
हरिद्रा कटुका तिकता रूक्षोशना कफपित्तनूत।
वर्णयो त्वगदोष मेहस्त्रशोथ पांडू व्रणापहा।  भावप्रकाश
Dr. V B. Maheshwari: Himalaya pharmaceutical is using haridra *(oro t liquid)* in gandush form in mukha roga.
17400: Of course Vaidyaratnam having a product called nisha amalaki choornam
Croatia Branko Markovic: Good home remedie for sama pitta and sama kapha, especially in GIT is: warm water, pinch of maricha, juice of lemon, 1 teaspoon haridra and 1 teaspoon of honey. Also very effective in cold, fever etc. Best on empty stomach
Dr. Vikas Sharma: Hridra is the main ingradient of lom shatak yog
Dr. Arvind Shahane: Haridrakhand is also effective on allergic coughing
Dr. Jyoti Ashok: Nishamrita tablets are v good in all allergic conditions But acc. to ayurveda can v add honey to warm water?
Croatia Branko Markovic: Warm, not hot.. under 60 degree it will not be toxic..
Dr. Jyoti Ashok: But acc to sushrutha & vagbhata
Honey should never be heated or added to any drinks or food which is hot or warm. Even if body temperature is high we should not consume, even during summer when the temperature is high v should not take.
Croatia Branko Markovic: Here people during fever use honey in warm tea, and always fever subside..so as I take is mild warm, not hot..
Dr. Jyoti Ashok: Ashtanga hridaya -5/59
Dr. Siva Kumar: It is an antidote to jaluka
Croatia Branko Markovic: True..I don’t argue it is not recommended..but taking it with warm water (not hot) which is around 25-30 degree should not produce any problem..
Dr. Siva Kumar: It might depend on one's own experience,bt might not work for everyone
Vd. Dhruti Nirav Bhatt: Haridra has so many uses:
1. In Skin disease 1tbs Haridra churna with water early morning.
2.  In Eosinophilia Haridra  gives  wonderful result we can use Haridrkhand
3. In Urticaria i regularly use Haridrakhand
4. In Throat infection make  decoction of  Haridra and saindhav gargle is very effective
Throat dryness due to cold give Haridra + saindhav + Ghrit warm it and take it's really works.
We can give Haridra dhoom in bronchitis
In Diabetes Haridra+ Amalki + Guduchi empty stomach
Skin itching and dark spots Lap of Haridra+ Milk malai
+ Honey
Gary Yuen: I have heard turmeric can inhibit hair growth. Any concern for using for traditional body scrub such as in face? There it might get on hair.
Dr.Piyush Dodiwadiya: Particular in South India
Girls used to scrub haridra over body
For the result of buty (color) and the removing of body hair as a waxing
Dr. Kundan Gadhavi: Role of curcumin in cancer...now a days many formulations of curcumin in allopath pharma  devision are available for treatment of ca
Dr. V B. Maheshwari: A study shows good results in inhibiting pathogenic oral bacteria, comparison with ciprofloxacin.

Gary Yuen: Perhaps then care should be used when washing face with turmeric and dal if it can affect head hair.
Croatia Branko Markovic: Friend of mine produce curcumin and maricha extract, mixed with vitamin c. They had good results in few cases like stomach, colon and lung cancer.
Dr. Misbah suhana: Use of turmeric in gandusha with warm water helpful in bleeding gums
Vd Jigar Narsana: Is there any reference for haridra+milk?  In general many use this for acute bronchitis , cough, fever
455: हल्दी ब्रेस्ट कैन्सर के विरुद्ध प्रभावी Curcumin useful against breast cancer. Nature India
RESEARCH HIGHLIGHTS Curcumin-loaded gum polymers kill aggressive breast cancer cells

doi:10.1038/nindia.2019.7 Published online 22 January 2019
Researchers have synthesized curcumin-loaded gum-polymer-based microspheres that, when attached with folic acid, can selectively kill an aggressive form of breast cancer cell1. This could lead to the development of a novel therapy for certain types of breast cancer. Triple-negative breast cancer cells lack specific receptor cell-surface proteins. The absence of the receptors endows them with the ability to defy certain synthetic anticancer drugs. Although curcumin has shown anticancer potential, it is not readily soluble in biological fluids, limiting its therapeutic applications. To devise a way to destroy the aggressive breast cancer cells, scientists from the Jadavpur University and the Bose Institute in Kolkata, India, made the microspheres using gum polymers isolated from an acacia tree. They then loaded the microspheres with curcumin and folic acid. Attaching folic acid enabled the microspheres to selectively bind to cancer cells, such as triple-negative cells, that express folate receptors. When exposed to cultured triple-negative breast cancer cells, the microspheres stopped the proliferation of the cancer cells by inducing apoptosis, a controlled process of cell death. The researchers found that the acidic environment of the cancer cells allowed the microspheres to release curcumin, which activated a specific death-triggering enzyme and blocked the activity of the specific protein known to prevent cell death. The curcumin-loaded microspheres also significantly shrank the size of breast tumours in mice, increasing the life-span of the tumour-bearing mice.
Croatia Branko Markovic: From Ayurved point of view how can Haridra reduce cancer?
Gary Yuen: That’s what I’m not sure about. Cancer is generally excess animal products, breast cancer excess estrogen from animal products, etc. Lack of antioxidants and so forth. Not sure how to explain that with doshas or other Ayurvedic concepts.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: If we see genetics in causing Cancer ,some of genes are responsible as per Follow:-
1) Gain of functions ProtoOncogenes
2) loss of function of tumor suppressor genes
3) gain of functions of antiApoptotic genes
2) loss of functions of Apoptotic genes.
3) loss of function  of genes those are responsible for repairing (P53-Gaurdian of genome).-Dysfunctionl DNA repair..
And there are many other genes(or mechanism like telomerase theory) those are responsible for cancer. There is some basic characteristics those are required to make a normal cell into malignant cell.
 ESCAPE FROM IMMUNITY is also one characteristics of cancer cell. So whenever there is problem related to Immunity Curcumin will be helpful As Curcumin is good immunomodulator . Curcumin can be helpful, Curcumin can not cure. There are many thoughts regarding Ayurvedic concepts of Management of Cancer. But it will be irrelevant in current topic.
Dr.Chattwani: Curcurmin and other Phytochemicals detoxify and deactivate carcinogens and prevent DNA damage., and may prevent proliferation of damaged cells.
Vd. Nidhi K Patel: Curcumin also used for chickengunia treatment. Curcumin  has been used for centuries in Asia to treat various disorders. It has been described to possess antiviral ,antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and antineoplastic activities in vitro and in vivo . It is a natural polyphenol isolated from turmeric (Curcuma longa). Curcumin's antiviral action is mainly due to its inhibiting action on virus entry into cells like blocking of hepatitis C virus (HCV) entry into hepatocytes by curcumin has been described in studies. Curcumin inhibits chikungunya virus majorly by following mechanisms - It inhibits virus replication. Reduces virus infectivity. Blocks binding of virus to cell surface.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29966389/
https://youtu.be/5N3iLhjLF5s
https://www.thecandidadiet.com/turmeric-natural-antifungal/
Gary Yuen: Antiviral, antioxidant, and antibiotic activity of turmeric isn't unique to that plant. It seems countless plants, maybe all in some level have such properties as their natural need to survive the environment.
It has been shown turmeric's properties are not unique to curcumin. As an antioxidant, I think turmeric with curcumin removed works better than curcumin itself. There are now studies looking into the other components. Any food or herb cannot be isolated.
As a member of the zingiberaceae family, relative of ginger, ela, and so forth, how does it differ from ginger? How does it differ from other curcuma species? Khare lists 6 used varieties of curcuma.
Gary Yuen: From Pole:
Lekhanīya ‘Scraping’ property
Dīpana Enkindles the digestive fire
Prameha Useful in diabetes
Pāṇḍughna Used in anaemia
Raktaśodhana Blood purifier
Ārtavajanana Promotes menses
Jvaraghna Alleviates fever
Viṣaghna Destroys poisons
Kṛmighna Worm destroying
Varṇya Complexion enhancer
Kuṣṭhagna Removes skin diseases
Kaṇḍūghna Stops itching
Vedanāsthāpana Analgesic
Sandhānīya Heals broken bones
Śirovirecana Useful in clearing stagnation from the head
Stanyaśodhaka Purifies breasts and breast milk
Dr. Rachana Mumbai: Curcumin also has hemostatic activity Years back and even today whenever there is cut we apply dry curcumin powder to wound knowing it's antibiotic activity also  Our ancestors learned to apply curcumin powder to fresh cuts
Croatia Branko Markovic: I do the same..also recommend to family and friends..they are amazed how quickly this works
Gary Yuen: A related plant, sati which may be curcuma zeodaria is listed as a vegetable in Caraka su.27. Is there precedent of any curcuma variety, of the leaves or other plant parts being used?
Some other varieties of curcuma have other properties such as reducing kapha. Maybe they are more pungent and taste more like relatives like ginger. Any of them commercially available?
Yes it looks like leaves and flowers are used by various cultures for many ginger family members including curcuma.
Croatia Branko Markovic: “A spice commonly used in curry could help erase bad memories, according to a recent study. Scientists found that curcumin, a bright yellow compound extracted from turmeric, was able to prevent new fearful memories from being stored in the brain (and also removed pre-existing fear memories!) Psychologists from The City University of New York trained rats to become scared when they heard a particular sound. Scientists assumed the creatures were frightened when they froze. Hours later, when the same sound was played to the rats, those who had been given ordinary food froze. Yet the rats fed the curcumin-rich diet didn’t freeze, suggesting their fearful memories had been erased! Professor Glenn Schafe, who led the study, said: ‘This suggests that people suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and other psychological disorders that are characterized by fearful memories may benefit substantially from a curcumin-enriched diet.’ Memories are formed in the brain as new connections between neurons. They are initially fragile, but gradually stabilize in the brain as they are put into long-term storage: a process known as consolidation. Here’s the kicker: when established memories are recalled, they ALSO temporarily destabilize in the brain, becoming like new memories for a while. This gives you your golden window to heal and recover from that memory! “If nothing happens, those destabilized fear memories get put back into long-term storage. In other words, they restabilize, or reconsolidate,” explained Professor Schafe. “But we’ve learned that we can go into the brain during that destabilization window and prevent those fear memories from reconsolidating.” That’s where turmeric comes in. “Effectively, we can erase them. And that appears to be what we’ve done with a curcumin-enriched diet.” Curcumin is known to have an anti-inflammatory effect on the body AND brain. This is important for the future of psychology, as inflammation has been implicated in psychological disorders such as depression, anxiety and PTSD.” – Daily Mail, UK
Gary Yuen: A study on people and mood and memory. Investigation of the effects of solid lipid curcumin on cognition and mood in a healthy older population. https://www.qxmd.com/r/25277322
14929: It's usha katu paka externally  varnya kandu hara.  best oushadhi in twak vikaras kapha vata origin
Ayulink Ayurveda: Haridra khanda is most common formulation used in skin diseases
14929: In case of sever itching case u can add haridra to warm water nd can take bath. In case sarava yukta condition we can use with nimba and haridra while bathing. We can use plain haridra churna with milk as immuno bosster
30995: Grihta brusta haridra choorna ( haridra fried in ghee and then powdered) taken with a cup of warm milk is very effective as an Immunomodulator in allergic bronchitis & eosinophilia. Ghee prepared with haridra is very effective when taken internally in piles and fissures...the same can be applied locally too
Vd Ashish Kumar: क्या रुक्ष कण्डु में लाभदायक होगी??
14929: With taila we can use.
30995: Yes ...also in sheeta pitta and Udarda
14929: Nishaamalaki churna is best rasayana usally priscribed in DM
Canada Nitin Shah: As a styptic to stop bleeding from abrasions, as an anti inflammatory for URTI for gargling, as a varnya for cosmetic skin conditions
14929: In case of pandu haridra khanda is beneficial
75636: Haridra khand is beneficial  in twak vikara. Grit brursta haridra useful in URTI. Haridra has a good vrunropak karya.
Dr. Amrish A Shah: Haridra is anti-inflammatory and pain  Relief drug in my Experience
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Compiled by - Dr. Dhruti Kagrana



"Rainy Season Woes: Protecting Your Eyes from Monsoon Infections"

  Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group: Disclaimer: All views shared here are only...