Calcaneal Spur #Ayurveda

Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group:

Disclaimer:

All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.

(Any ayurveda or medical doctor, If you like this activity, and wants to be a part of this chat discussion on whatsapp, please send in your request by email to admin@ayulink.com Thank you.)

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Next topic of discussion: Calcaneal Spur #Ayurveda

Dr. Kalpesh Vani: Agnikarma and Raktamokshan (Jalauka and Alabu) gives very fast and longlasting results

Dr. Pritam Veer: Calcium deposited because of excess calcium containing diet , medicine in calcaneal bone results severe pain at the site. Pain is severe pt can't even walk.

From Ayurveda point of view it's Aam sanchiti, just we can do local agnideepan by agnikarm or jalouka .

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Gary Yuen: Here's a review from 2017 summarizing what people think is the cause.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28369929

Can you explain please? Calcium pills yes bad. Classical foods listed first are all high in calcium. Agastya/agathi, tanduliya, and all of them. Probably ancient times they ate guduchi leaves and all in large quantities. In krta yuga, foods were even higher. Maybe lack of knowledge in combining them? Animals also focus on green plants. Seeds like tila also among higher foods.

Of some of the possible causes listed in review, diet could cause inflammation and deterioration making healing more difficult. Said bone can grow in response to stress and pressure. Obesity puts more pressure and increases risk, same for osteoarthritis. And bad shoes seem like a primary cause. Barefoot is our natural way. Sandals. Heeled shoes cause pressure. Most shoes also do not allow toes to move as they should. If our whole life we wore gloves that forced our fingers in the same position, they too would have problems.

There are other kinds of minimal footwear. If one must wear dress shoes, some such as from Vivo barefoot. Never high heels. Even normal dress and tennis shoes will later cause other problems.

Real dance is impossible without bare feet. Movement too. The Gods are barefoot. Many problems come when we are not.

In osteoarthritis, that is also associated with obesity and increases risk and development, I think it was for every extra 10 pounds of body fat, there's an extra 40 pounds of pressure on the knee. For the foot, it will be something increaese. could be significant.

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: In many cases cause of bone spur is Osteoporosis. Bone try to compensate osteoporosis and resulted in spur

Gary Yuen: Some studies suggest osteoarthritis. Weaking of cartilage, joints, and muscles say can lead to spurs. Does anyone notice they occur more in people that wear certain shoes or are overweight? Like farmers or workers that use their hands, or villagers that go barefoot and the skin grows thicker and toucher, it seems possible it's a response to stress.

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Rajika lepa over painful area is good effective.

Dr. Vivek D. Shah: Yes.. But rajika mixed with gud.. (jaggery) gvs  more better result..

Dr. Rajendra Joshi: Isteka sweda

14929: causes obesity ,continous  waliking for long distance , wear hrad foot wear,  high heeled slipers.

its comes under abhighataja vata vrudhhi . snayu ashti agata vata. known as vata kantaka . some scholrs same asti vruddhi also. doshically vata  (sheeta karatva) kapha (guru sheeta ) vrudhi. vayus laghutva reduces nd chalatva reduces.

vatakapha hara ushna sigdha treatmnt .. sneha pana nd sweda

apply of any ushna veerya taila befr istaka sweda is benefical

internally rasna erandadi kshm , rasana sapkam gugglu tiktakam benifical. internal admistration of guggulu tiktaka grutu benifical. kottam chukkadi tialm, murvenni, vishagrbha or maha vishagarbha, vishamusti can be used. if person is lean then Bala ashwagandha lakashadi is benifical.

Vd. Kalpesh Makvana: agnikarma gives good results

Also use cap barkalwin(avn pharma)

Dr. Meenaxi Verma: Agnikarama+ matra basti

Dr. Priyanka Gupta: Agni karma

Vd Tushar Trivedi: I have found that Raktamokshana is better than Agnikarma in case of calcaneus spur.

Raktamokshana provides long term relief.

Add Tab.  Kaishor Guggulu with it.

Dr.Amit Shukla: Which raktamokshan?

And if Siravedh, from where u aspirate blood, I mean location of blood letting?

Vd Tushar Trivedi: Not siravedha, Just wet cupping (Alabu)

Dr. Samir Suneri: I m using 3 methods

1st istika swedan for 30 minutes than abhtanga

2nd raktamokshan by leeches

3rd agni karma over the painfull area

Some times I also seen these complaints are related with DM .

MEDICINE  as pr my thinking it's a asthivikar (vaat) and I m using lakshadi gugulu

Asthimajapachak tab

And vatahar kadha

Dr. Vikas Sharma: Use Carbolic acid directly on affected site 2 or 3 time on consecutive days can resolve this condition effectively.

Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: How to use? In calcenous spur?

Dr. Vikas Sharma: Simply applied over night with cotton on spur site .Nothing else.

Dr. Amrish A Shah: PL kahase mile

Dr. Vikas Sharma: Dentist use this in dentle procedure.you can easily take from them

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Compiled by - Dr. Dhruti Kagrana

Foods for Vata # Ayurveda

Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group:

Disclaimer:

All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.

(Any ayurveda or medical doctor, If you like this activity, and wants to be a part of this chat discussion on whatsapp, please send in your request by email to admin@ayulink.com Thank you.)

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Next topic of discussion: Foods for Vata # Ayurveda

Dr. Pritam Veer: Koshna Jala a very good option for Vata.

Vd. Avni Kaneria: Ghreeta is a good vata samak

Dr. Pritam Veer: Oil - eg til , erand

Shri Minoo parabia: Erand and its preparations are best to cause Anuloman. Castoroil, Erandpak.

Dr. Mrugeshkumar Patel: Garlic ,Higu,Mustard is good vat samak

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Dr. Pritam Veer: Lahshun best vatanuloman

Shahil H Bhavsar: Eranda taila is best in vata shamak taila

Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: To keep Vata in balance, favor the sweet, sour and salty tastes and avoid bitter, pungent and astringent foods.

Gary Yuen: Heavy foods too like godhuma, oats, and masa.

Shahil H Bhavsar: ashta aahar vidhi vidhan describes rules of taking food.It all describes for vata shaman. Ex. Usna,snigdha ahar

Vd. Dhruti Nirav Bhatt: Quality or Guna of Vata are Ruksh(dry), shit(cold),  chal, So Usna,Snigdh Aahar Sweet, Sour, Salty taste are good as Vatshamak Wheat, Green gram, Black gram, yellow Musterd , Pumpkin, Cucumber, Guard,Small radish, onian Garlic,Lemon, ripe mango apple,Dates, watermelon, Orange,Falsa, Bilwa, Ajwain, Ginger, dry ginger, black pepper, Haritaki, Castoroil, pipallimool,

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Taste:- Madhura(sweet) Amla(sour) Lavana(salty)

CORNS:-  Various varieties of rice, Godhuma(wheat), Rajagaro(Buck wheat), નાગલી-(Ragi),

PULSES:- Masa(Black gram), Kulttha(Dolichos biflorus) Tila(Sesamum),

VEGETABLES:- Vartaku(Brinjal), Karvellaka(Bitter gourd), Vastuka(Purple goose foot), Upodika(Red Malabar nightshade), Sthalaja Gandeer(ગરમર), Bala moolaka(small radish), Snigdha moolaka(Radish cooked in fat), Shushka moolaka(Dry radish), Adraka (Ginger) Grujanaka(Wild turnip), Grujanaka (Carrot), Palandu(Onion), Lashuna(Garlik), Fudino(Mint), Mirch (chilly), Surana(Amorphophallus Campanulatus), Matulunga(Citrus Medica), Jambeera(Lemon), Methi(Fenugreeka), Shigru(Horse Radish), Devadali(Luffa echinata), Karkotaka-કંટોલા(Momordica Dioica), Changeri- રુખડી(Indian sorrel), લુણી  (Porulaceae Oleracea), Kushmand( white pumpkin), Haridra-Turmeric, Kerado- Capparis Decidua Edgew, Vrukshamla(Garcinia Indica),

FRUITS:- Dadim(Pomegranate), Sakkarateti-Melon, Rajadan- (Mimusops Hexandra), Kapittha(Wood Apple), Kamarakha(Chinese goose berry), Apple, Papaya, Ripe Mango, Orange, Mulberries, Parushaka, Grapes, Dates, Coconut, Walnut, Cashew nut, Pistachio nut, Almond, Fig, Jatifal(Nutmeg),

SPICES:- Ajmo-Bishops weed, બોડી અજમો(celery seed), Shatpushpa( Dill seed), કાળી જિરિ(Purple Fleabane), Cumin, Caraway-શાહ જીરુ, Taja- cinnamon bark, Mari- Black pepper, Parasika yavani(Hyocymus Niger), કલોન્જી- Black cumin, રાઈ- Indian mustard, Elaichi- Cardamom, Basil,

DAIRY PRIDUCTS:-Milk, Curd, Butter milk, Ghee, Butter, Sugar cane, Jaggery, Garden cress, Linseed, Saffron, Piper netel-Tambul, All types of alcohol(not old), Fresh Honey, Shingoda- Indian water chestnut, Coffee, Groundnut. All spices are vatshamak

Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Basically vata  treat with oil. So whenever vata people eat any vatavardhaka vegetables or beans it properly fried with oil.

Dr.Piyush Dodiwadiya: In ayurveda taila_ oil is raw Now a days all oils are refined and hydrogenated. Then is oil loose its property or not?

Dr. Kundan Gadhavi: First we hav to decide is it keval vata or anubandhit (associate with pitta or kapha). In pittanubandhita vata ushna dravya will not work madhura and snigdha will work. Like shatavari,yashti,bala,ghrita. In keval vata erandbhrashtharitaki. In vata+pitta haritaki with munnaka sarkra panak. In vata kapha haritaki with sunthi or gomutra

Dr. Jaya Sambhus: Yes . double filtered oil should use. All madhur n bhruhan dravya is vat shamak .

Dr. Sushant Patil: Exactly where is this concept is explained in Ayurveda.Ayurveda had given Murchhana Sandarbha for cleaning of Ashuddhi.  By this concept account of ur statement we must have to use 24 Ct gold nor Suvarnabhasma

Dr. Misbah suhana: For vata shamana best is taila abhyanga, shirodhara and sneha basti are the best.. followed by laghu aahara

Croatia Branko Markovic: Root veggies best in soups with lot of oil, ginger + garlic as a base. There should be lot of Sneha like tila tailam in food. Blended fresh dates with maricha, kardamom, ghee/butter, pealed almonds, hot milk. Before sleep or for breakfast. Sweet bals from tila, dates, butter, walnuts/almonds, kardamom..

Slovenia Anoop S. Anand: instead of frying with oil how about adding oil on top of it while eating

Gary Yuen: aluka (purple yam) might be the best root. it seems the sweetest and heaviest.

Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Not more idea about adding oil on the top. If anyone have idea please elobarate. As per my understanding Frying with oil is a sanskar kalpana. Sanskaro hi gunataradhanam.

Gary Yuen: I'm also unsure if frying is needed or if oil is enough. Oil by itself will have some effect though unsure how it compares.

How do atasi and tila differ for vata? In some parts of the texts, one is preferred, sometimes the other. Atasi oil is known to go rancid after a few days even if kept in the refrigerator. It's possible in older times, oil was made and used the same day. Like fruit that will oxidize and change color immediately once it's cut, oil likely starts oxidizing immediately. Tila oil possibly should be obtained from companies that use dark colored glass bottles. There have also been studies of oil rancidity. Toasted sesame will keep only for 6 months if kept under ideal conditions, from date of manufacture. Unsure how raw differs. It's probably best to obtain only that is less than a few months old.

Atasi is also said to harm eyesight. Is there a reason? Perhaps because it is a heavy, like wheat is said to also harm eyesight because of that reason, depending on how it's consumed.

Dr.jigar joshi:To avoid excessive physical n mental stress is mandatory for Vat shaman..

Dr.samir suneri: Vata pacifying diets Fruit s all sweet fruits Dates,figs, sweet apple, banana, mangoes Raisins. Vegetables Asparagus, sweet potteto, Pumpkin,beans,and sprouts. Dairy Milk, fresh cheese ,butter, ghee, Oills Sesame,olive , sunflower,peanut. Spice's Black pepper,ginger, coriander, गरम मसाला,turmeric,hindu, garlic , clove,sesame seeds. Plz avoid this this things Apathya for vata dry food,junk food,cold food,frozen food,and large beans like kidney beans ,peas.

Croatia Branko Markovic: Beans?

Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Virudha dhanya too vaatkar

Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: An important part of this diet are legumes/beans. Legumes/Beans are classified as lentils, beans, or peas, and all of them are basically seeds from specific plants. There are numerous varieties of legumes grown throughout the world, and they come in various shapes, sizes and colors.

*LEGUMES FOR VATA DOSHA*

Legumes/Beans have a high amount of hard-to-digest protein (whose metabolic by-product is nitrogen waste). Nitrogen is a gas, and all gasesincrease Vata. Because of this, Vata persons should not eat too much protein. Only a small amount of legumes should be eaten by a Vata person during a meal. Even tofu can aggravate Vata if it is eaten daily for a long period of time. Mung beans are the best high-protein food because they are the easily to digest and disturbthe mind the least. Peanuts tend to cause the blood to clot and should not be eaten by someone who has a circulation problem. Cumin and coriander seeds help fire up the digestive fire. Asafetida, ginger and garlic keep Vata from being disturbed and turmeric keeps legumes from poisoning the blood,Soaking legume for at least an hour before cooking, then throwing out the water, reduces intestinal gas which are caused by the increased Vata of peas and beans. If this doesn’t work, then cook the legumes first in water for five to ten minutes and throw out the water. In India lentils and peas are usually split. Splitting exposes more surfaces during cooking and gets rid of the indigestible outer coast. It is best to cook split pulses into a soup and eat with grains. The best legumes to eat are mung beans, chickpeas, tofu, red lentils and black lentils. Black lentils give strength, but are hard to digest. They should be cooked with extra asafetida.

MUNG BEANS – FOR ALL BODY TYPESMung beans (Phaseolus aureous) are small cylindrical beans with bright green skin and yellow insides. They are eaten whole, split with skins on, split and hulled, or sprouted. They appear extensively in both Indian and Chinese cuisines. In ayurvedic cooking, they are used whole or, more commonly, split and hulled, which reveal small, yellow beans called mung dahl. These beans don’t need pre-soaking and are easy to cook to butter-soft consistency in a pressure cooker. They can also be cooked in a slow cooker or on the stovetop, but should be sorted and washed thoroughly beforehand.The easiest to digest of all the beans is yellow split mung dahl. Yellow mung beans are green mung beans that has been hulled and split. Thisdahl helps to balance all three doshas and is thequickest cooking of all the dahls. It takes only 20 minutes to cook without any soaking time.Mung beans are one of the most cherished foods in ayurveda. They are Tri-Doshic, meaningthat they can balance all three doshas, especially when cooked with spices appropriatefor each dosha. They are very nourishing, while relatively easy to digest, and do not generally create abdominal gas or bloating, the drawbacks of larger beans. Mung beans can be eaten on their own, or combined with rice to make Khichari, or combined with vegetables andgreens to make hearty soups or ground into flour to be used to make rotis (Indian crepes) or added to breads. Turmeric, cumin, dried ginger and coriander are spices that work very well with mung beans. Persons recuperating are often recommended to eat Khichari, rice and mung beans, for a good level of nourishment without troubling the digestion.Ayurvedic healers valuer the mung bean most highly, because it is very nutritious and delivers sustenance while being easier on the digestion than other beans. When cooked to butter-soft consistency mung beans can be digested even by the ill, the very old and the very young, and individuals with a weak digestive fire. Mung beans offer the astringent and sweet tastes, are cooling for the body, and light and soft. When combined with enhancing herbs and spices, mung beans are suitable for all the doshas.According to modern nutritionists, mung beans offer 14 gms of protein per cooked cup. Mung beans are a good source of dietary fiber and phytoestrogens. They also contain vitamins A, Cand E, folacin, thiamin, calcium, iron, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium and copper.

Source: http://www.americanbean.org/beans-in-ayurvedic-medicine/

Dr. Siva Kumar: Mudga yusha

Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Easy to digest

Gary Yuen: Rice too is tridoshic, maybe that applies mainly to raktashali and sastika, and not the common basmati or other white types. But aren't heavy foods preferred like masa and godhuma? Are any of the millets good for vata?

Vd. Hardik bhatt: Indian pickles are very good for vata pacifies..  pickeles  are mostly sour In taste, oily, mixed with spices. A very nice combination for shuddh vata. If there is aavarana ..or Sam vata . Pickles not to use .

Fenugreek , karir, garlik, ginger, bitter guard , gunda, garmar, carrot root, lemon  are different t varieties of Indian pickles.

Gary Yuen: Carrot is sweet though it seems to have some other taste like astringent. It seems effective though wouldn't strictly sweet tubers like squash (pumpkin kabocha butternut etc), yam (aluka, dioscorea alata), and sweet potato be better?

How is yava? Said to be sweet though lightly drying in Caraka Su.27, though still recommended regularly and promotes stability. The drying effect may less important when combined with other foods. I also haven

It find what kind of yava was used in Vedic India or elsewhere in ancient times. There's many varieties, 2–6 row and maybe many varieties of each, but there's very little info since many do not eat it today.

Dr. Sujata Vaidya: Referring to the comment on oil... Indial food is cooked with spices in oil then veggies added in in current times. If yu see traditional.. except for meal items that are essentially fried... dails meal.. bhajji, daal had oil 'phodni or tadka' added from top after veggies are cooked.  This avoided over cooking oil that kills the nutrition in them. The more raw the oil.. more nutrition. All oils in this form help vaata people with supporting digestion.

Gary Yuen: Can we be sure that oil was used in the same quantity and same way as in ancient times? The Gita 17.8 describing a sattvic diet uses snigdha and some translated as well oiled. Some sastras also describing food also mention daily oil rations given to various classes like brahmin. But these are all late texts. Oil certainly is more absorbed and will produce more fat. But are nuts and seeds like tila and atasi enough, either as snack or ground into powder and added to food? Several plant-based doctors advise against oil and recommend instead whole nuts and seeds. Fat does promote absorption and is important with food like with herbs, but several doctors cite studies suggesting oil is damaging to blood vessels. Maybe it is ok in some quantity in extreme vata but otherwise nuts and seeds may be better. Many nutrients are lost when fiber is separated from oil.

Dr. Sujata Vaidya: True. But, We need to consider ground realities in modern times with oils available today. Very few options of Laakdi ghani or cold pressed un processed oils available.

Gary Yuen: There are several such as from organic India, maybe need to order from Internet, though i think harm may still be more than good.

Vd. Hardik bhatt: I think that there is some misunderstanding. Not only brahmins ,but a person who are doing mental work,  like research work or some else need more oiling to his brain.  And that oiling is like cow's ghee. .. because it is a different thing from oil. Nuts and seeds are very good . One concept we should understand that saturated fat and unsaturated fat  also. The properties of ghee is satvik when oil is rajasik. So the person who r going to fight or yuddha or want more physical energy they need oil . Who are working calmly , mental work , research work need ghee.

Gary Yuen: Such are complex questions in the modern world. My concern is use of classical prescriptions without knowing why and under what conditions ancients came to such knowledge, and what is not written such as by quantity, season, etc. When treating vata or some other condition, is there some harm that comes also and will manifest later? About ghee, there's some studies of oxidized cholesterol. Maybe desi ghee no longer uses the same breed of cow, and might not necessarily be made in the same way as before, such as the temperature. One study mentions 25ºC.

About ghee being good for mental work and medhya rasayana, the one study I could find says that is not true. There could be multiple factors, not fresh, commercially made, something else. Questions are not as simple as before.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5071963/

Vd. Gurumahantesh: At first glance it seems the duration of 21 days is less sir

Gary Yuen: Do you mean that more time is required to show an effect? Rats in a maze and in water also may not be a good test of memory. Still I am unsure why ghee and milk are rasayana. Human milk maybe, if the mother's diet is good and milk as such contains everything necessary. Ghee and milk may share some properties but protein, hormones, and maybe other factors are not ideal for us. Maybe it was iodine or B12, lacking in some parts of India, that made it rasayana, or older cows that ate not grass but forest foods. Both tila and ghee are mentioned in various texts, such as the Upanisads. Atasi, with older names uma & himavat, is also worth questioning. Fat in plant forms may be better overall. Unsure but modern science seems to suggest it.

pranayama also can help in vata shaman

Vd.Ashish Kumar: परन्तु जब शुद्ध वात विकार न होकर अवरोध जन्य हो तब ये आहार वात को बढ़ाएगा,इसका ध्यान अवश्य रखें।

Dr.Jigar Joshi: Pranayam thi vat laxan vadhya hoy avu pan jova malyu chhe (khas kari ne tremors and Anidra).

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Compiled by - Dr. Dhruti Kagrana

Punarnava(Borehavia diffusa) & it's uses #Ayurveda

Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group:

Disclaimer:

All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.

(Any ayurveda or medical doctor, If you like this activity, and wants to be a part of this chat discussion on whatsapp, please send in your request by email to admin@ayulink.com Thank you.)

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Next topic for discussion: Punarnava(Borehavia diffusa) & it's uses #Ayurveda

Vd. Dhruti Nirav Bhatt: Punarnava has shothhar gun (Anti inflammatory effect )  so it is best to reduce swelling .

Punarnava Mandoor has good results in Anaemia, hypothyroidism and vit.B12 deficiency Anaemia also in Padshoth.

Punarnavastak Kwath is useful in renalfailure  pedal oedema, renal calculi .

Dr. V B. Maheshwari: Name says a lot. Punarnava. Means which is doing regeneration of cells.

Punarnava is best for nephrons.

Widely used in renal patients.

A very good product named Neeri KFT, which is having 1gm of punarnava in 10ml is good for renal failure.

Punarnava is best for anaemia as it increase  erythropoietin hormone level

Best indication is in shotha.

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Dr. R Prathiban: Very effective in renal diseases like CRF

Vd. Gurumahantesh: Which  one is used Shweta punarnava Or rakta punarnava

Dr. Jyoti Ashok:  punaha (again) nava (new) =punarnava. P. Mandura is best for paandu , shotha.

Vd. Hardik bhatt: Punarnava can be used as rasayana drug. After sanshodhan , rasayana can be done with punarnava swarasa.

In village area people eat punanrnava as bhaji- vegetable.. they make muthiya, thepla also...

Punarnava is very good for recurrent Stone problem..

Dr.Piyush Dodiwadiya: What is the effect of punarnava on electrolytes

It is diuretic, it can cause hyponatremia or hypokalemia or not?

Ayulink: good question...but Puanarnava is also rasayana...means it can maintain electrolytes or supplement other effective elements too.

Gary Yuen: Caraka Ci 12.34-38 describes punarnavadyarista: It alleviates heart disease, anaemia, severe swelling, splenomegaly, fever, anorexia, prameha, fistula, six types of udararoga, cough, bronchial asthma, grahanxroga, kpstha and itching, vatika disorders in limbs, constipation, hiccup, lcucoderma, halimaka and promotes complexion, strength, life span, immunity and energy.

Is there some combination to best use as rasayana? Also listed as vayasthapana.

A review from 2016 covers research. The book titled rasayana also reviews diuretic studies which may have some clue on care in use.

One note in the review mentions reduction in animals in testes size and sperm count. I have been curious. Many herbs and foods may have rasayava or other beneficial effects yet they reduce fertility. Unsure if in women too. Is that cause for concern or is there some meaning?

Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Study of leaf extract of B. diffusa produced dose-dependent reduction in blood glucose. probably through rejuvenation of pancreatic β-cells or through extrapancreatic action

Gary Yuen: before there were multiple theories, unsure what it is currently. From the work Rasayana by Puri (2003): The ash of the plant is rich in potassium nitrate and for a long time it was considered that the diuretic action of the herb was attributed to this (Thakur et al. 1989). Earlier studies indicate that punernava increased urinary output but decreased urinary albumin and specific gravity. Singh and Udupa (1972 a, b, c) observed that the best results with this herb were seen in oedema due to renal diseases. It had a urinary antiseptic effect and improved the pattern of renal recovery. It showed cardiotonic, hypertensive and smooth muscles relaxant effects. These authors postulated that it increased urine output due to its cardiotonic effect. The increase in the cardiac output raised the blood pressure, leading to an increase in the renal blood flow and improved glomerular filtration rate. It was useful in nephrotic syndrome. The root extract studied by Mudgal (1974, 1975) had a better diuretic, anti-inflammatory property and it improved renal recovery faster. When given to patients of nephrotic syndrome by Singh (1991), the root, in powder form, was as effective as cortisone and modern diuretics. Punernava increased serum protein and immunoglobulin levels but reduced urinary protein excretion (Singh et al. 1992).

found two reviews: A review of the plant Boerhaavia diffusa: its chemistry,

pharmacology and therapeutical potential http://www.phytopharmajournal.com/Vol5_Issue2_08.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4053255/

How does vayasthapana differ from rasayana. Can vayasthapana herbs like punarnava be taken regularly?

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Vayaspathaana is one virtue of RASAYANA..

Dr. Pritam Veer: Punarnava has been used in medicine since ancient times and is particularly popular in Ayurvedic medicine. It offers a whole range of health benefits. It is extremely good for the liver and prevents infections from occurring in it. It is a diuretic and can prevent kidney stones from occurring. It is good for patients with arthritis and diabetes. It can treat urinary tract infections, heavy menstruation, fibroids, and clotting in women. It fights obesity and prevents heart failure from occurring. It is good for the eyes and digestion, and is also used as a laxative. It can cure impotence and erectile dysfunction as well. It can also help with certain kinds of cancer. Punarnava on Urinary System. Punarnava has anti-spasmodic, anti-microbial, and anti-inflammatory properties in it. Together, these work as a fantastic cure for UTIs, clearing out the infection effectively in no time. The herb can also be used to cure UTIs during pregnancy as it does not have any adverse effects on the mother or baby. Punarnava As Hrudya Punarnava can help you prevent congestive heart failure. This is because it reduces the workload that’s put on the heart by inducing edemas. For it to be as beneficial as possible, it should ideally be mixed with Terminala Arjuna Bark powder, TapyadiLoha, or any other herbal remedy for heart failure for maximum results.

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Compiled by - Dr. Dhruti Kagrana

Ayu Cafe Live chat - Sandhivata

Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group:

Disclaimer:                

All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.

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AyuCafe - Live chat

Topic for discussion: Sandhivat

Ayulink:This is very comon complain we are facing in our practice. Usually we try to give shaman chikitsa to our patients. some times we also try to give diet advise.

4929: abhihata janya is one of cause

Vd. Ekta D. Patel: In which type of Sandhivata Agnikarma is best?  Degnrative or abhigataj

Ayulink:I mostly go for panchkarma. abhyang, svedana and basti are my favourite

71473: Abhighataja......

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Ayulink: I consider OA is more related with snadhivata! and for the diagnosis I also take help of x-ray / MRI

71473: In degenerative sandhivat we HV u to use dhatukshayajanya chikitsa

Dr. Shekhar Gole: Chikitsa should be aushadhi aahar and vihar so diet and exercise should also be advised with medicines

14929: In degenerative tikta kshree basti is useful

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: Sometime we found it  b coz of malnutrition too.

Ayulink:asthi dhatu kshaya?

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: I think if we use SANDHI THERE MUST B INVOLVEMENT OF -- JOINT

Ayulink:yes

14929: not only asthi..snanyu also got invoved

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: But in OA WE CAN SAY ASTHI DHATU KSHAY OR ASTHI DHATU GAT VAT

Ayulink:Major question is: Sandhivata = degenrative disorders?

14929: no

Ayulink: Involvement of sandhi and asthi dhatu gat vata is different condition

71473: No. It may leads to degenative changes

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: YES. BUT NOT ALWAYS.  I SHOW SO MANY YOUNG PERSONS ALSO SUFFERED FROM LACK OF CALCIUM ND SO PAIN IN JOINT ND WEAKNESS OF BONES

14929: In inital stage there wont be degeneration..

Ayulink:sandhi vata = vata in sandhi...may be sandhi is disturbed or not. may be symptoms are there or not. May be degenration is there or not

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: Not agree sir. Some time only bones . We can see osteophytes

Ayulink:may be sandhi is paiful or not

Vd Ashish Kumar: सन्धि मर्म स्थान है।इसमे हमे रक्त,सन्धि,श्लेशक कफ,अस्थि,मांस की विकृति को देखना चाहिये

Ayulink:snayu gat vat is again different condition

Vd Ashish Kumar: मेद विकृति = स्नायु विकृति. मेद की उपधातु है स्नायु

Ayulink:sandhi vata is commonly refer as OA of knee joint. Can someone describe classical symptoms of sandhivata? according to text book?

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: I always try to give calcium supplements like Hadjod- shallaki etc along with abhyang swedan

Vd Ashish Kumar: 90% सन्धिवात परतंत्र निदान सेवन से होता है,जैसे कफ वर्धक आहार से स्थूलता और अवरोधजन्य सन्धिवात

Vd Rameshwar Dhanaji: vaatpurna druti sparsha shoth sandhigate anile prasaran akunchan pravrutish savedana

Ayulink:over exercsion, improper use of sandhi, excessive use of sandhi, improper postures, aahar - vihar are major cause

Vd Ashish Kumar: ज्यादातर वैद्य सीधे सीधे लक्षण के आधार पर केल्शियम के आयुर्वेद सप्लीमेंट्स उपयोग करते है वो ज्यादातर मामलों में रिजल्ट नही देते

14929: can we consider spondylolysis as sandivata

Vd Ashish Kumar: हेतु विपरीत चिकित्सा ही श्रेष्ठ है।

Vd Rameshwar Dhanaji: we should not forget kaphakshay in sandhigat vaat.

Dr. Shekhar Gole: Calcium absorption is also important

Ayulink:Spondylolysis is defined as a defect or stress fracture in the pars interarticularis of the vertebral arch.

Dr. Supratim Bir: And kafa nashak approach do work in great extent, specifically Agnikarma

Vd Ashish Kumar: कफ क्षय और वात प्रकोप के रोगी कृश होते है उसमे सीधे सीधे तैल स्नेहन अभ्यंग और स्निग्ध स्वेद लाभकारी है

Ayulink:can be considered under sandhivata

Dr. Madhura Phadtare: Differential diagnosis are-aamvaat,sandhigatvaat, vat rakta,kapha ksheen ,mans ksheen ,asthiksheen ,        avruta vaat-santarpanotha , kshayvaat vrudhi-apatarpnoth

Vd Rameshwar Dhanaji: avrutta vaat is also capable of doing kaphkshay

Vd Ashish Kumar: बस्ति सर्वश्रेष्ठ

14929: vatapoorna druthi sparsha shoto sandigate anile | prasarana akunchanauyo pravruthischa vedanam (charaka vatavyadi chik ). shushruta says shola shoopha.

Dr. Madhura Phadtare: Differential diagnosis are-aamvaat,sandhigatvaat, vat rakta,kapha ksheen ,mans ksheen ,asthiksheen ,        avruta vaat-santarpanotha , kshayvaat vrudhi-apatarpnoth

Ayulink:Can we consider Spondylolisthesis under sandhivata? Spondylolisthesis is the slippage or displacement of one vertebra compared to another.

71473: 2 types.....nirupsthambit Nd upasthambit.....according to type treatment will change

Neelamben Chudasma: For Sandhivat what oil we use for basti ?

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: I think where ever pain we should consider VAT  ND SO NERVOUS SYSTEM TOO. AS PAINKILLER OF ALLOPATHY DIRECTLY WORK ON NERVOUS SYSTEM ND RELIEVE PAIN.  IN AAYURVEDA ARE WE CONSIDERING NERVOUS SYSTEM INVOLVMENT???

Ayulink:asymptomatically we can use Maha narayan oil, Nirgundi oil, bala oil  etc.. for basti

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Janu Basti gives good results & improvement & VALUKA SWEDA thrice a day in Amavata induced Sandhivata!! My Question is Clinically (by examination) how to differentiate between the Sandhivata & Amavata ❓

Vd. Kalpesh Makvana: Pichu is also good option in oa

Ayulink:That depends on your individual thinking. Yes, I would also consider VATA = Nervous system

Vd Rameshwar Dhanaji: hetu sevan is key in diagnosing the conditions.

Dr. Nilesh Patel: Mahanarayan taila, Kshirabala taila, Narayan taila, Nirgundi taila, Bala taila etc

Ayulink:pichu with which oil?

14929: In case of amavata shoota with stanika ushmata will be there..but in sandivata no ushmata

Vd. Kalpesh Makvana: I m using Murvenna oil pichu

14929: In amavata agravets with oil appl in sandivata it decreas

Dr. Nayan Gajera: If any arthritic pain not subside by vat chikitsa,then think about rakt

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: So. Instead of treating local symptoms should we try  to do something for nervous SYSTEM too ???

14929: In chornic case by seeing the pt leg we can diagnos the sandivata

Ayulink: Clinical symptoms: aamavata having inflammation, sandivata no aamavata in major joints (mostly), sandhivata in minor aamavata pain is constant, sandhivata no constant aamavat pain like scorpio bite, sandhivata not such strong

Neelamben Chudasma: How about exercise and yoga work for that?

Vd. Ahmed Savani: In degenerative case, we prescribe Trikatu, Arjuna, Ashwagandha, Punarnava, Godanti (in case of intense pain) Any Guggulu (MP: Yogaraja Guggulu, EBH, Agni Chikitsa. What's your thought process behind this?

Ayulink:EBH = erand brashta haritaki

Vd Ashish Kumar: आम वात= कोटमचुकादि, वात रक्त= क्षीरबला, सन्धिवात क्षय जन्य = धानवतर, शूल युक्त = महानारायण सब तैल निराम अवस्था में जानु बस्ति या पिचु उपयोग करें।

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Does in Sandhivata (especially Knee J.) Does Crepitation should always be present ❓❓

Dr. Nayan Gajera: No..

Ayulink:Not necessary....depending on the stage of degenration.

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Degeneration is progressive process not all of sudden!

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: Yes.

Ayulink:Lets start with treatment aspect. we have 30 min left in this session. Many friends are silent...let us give them opportunity to write something

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Sandhivata is usually BL.Ri8 Like OA?

Dr.Satish Panda: Mild sanshodhan give you a Long standing result

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Sandhivata before the age of 40 is uncommon, Always stressed on occupation, lifestyle! It's more of Amavata rather than Sandhivata (in my opinion)

Vd. Kalpesh Makvana: Ksheerbala aavrti cap also giving good results in sandivat

Dr. Shekhar Gole: Lakshadi Guggul , Yograj Guggul, Dashmoolarisht, Mahanarayan Tel

Vd Ashish Kumar: सभी आमवात जीर्ण अवस्था मे सन्धिवात बन जाते है या उन्हें सन्धिवात की चिकित्सा करनी चाहिए,आप पाचन के बाद।

Dr.Satish Panda: For savere pain use nirgundi

Vd Ashish Kumar: आप= आम

Dr. Shekhar Gole: If swelling is there give Punarnava Guggul

Dr. Nayan Gajera: For any type of pain Dashmool tail + dhanvantar tail.matra basti give good results

Dr. Yogin Patel: Can we do panchkarm in rainy season in oa ? Or abhyang of oil in rainy season? I think It will increase pain & swelling

Vd Ashish Kumar: वर्षा ऋतु में तो बस्ति करना ही है।

Dr. Shekhar Gole: Yes

Vd. Ahmed Savani: What could be the  reasons behind the Ushnata in AV & no Ushnata in SandhiVata (SV)?? Pls explain. Agreed

Dr. Shekhar Gole: Ans was by mistake

Vd. Shrinidhi: Well we need to also keep in mind gata vata concept and go with pancha tikta grita 10 ml bid with . lakshadi guggulu with maha rasnadi khada will give satisfactory result along with local application of  kottamchukkadi taila or maha narayana taila will be benificial

Vd. Sachin Kadlag: If Dhatookshaya is origin than Snehana   is first line of treatment . while Swedana  is first line of treatment i f Aavarana is origin

14929: In case degenaration ..wr asthi kyasa will be there nd vata vruddhi.. so thikta rasa is agni deepaka nd pachak but vata vruddhi kara.. so by  adding ksheera wch is balya so it reduces vata prakopa due to tikta rasa dravya .. in case of degeneration process there wil be ashi gata dhatu agni mandya so.. tikata rada basti is adviced

Vd. Sachin Kadlag: Anuvaasan  basti is useful in dhatookshaya while  mainly Niruha in Aavarana .

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Above of all in Amavata, Pain is more & along with the stiffness @ the time in morning from wake up, get bit relief after performing some action. While in SandhiVata, Pain is constant & increased while doing any activity like walking etc!!

14929: avarna mimics like amavata..

Vd. Sachin Kadlag: yes

Vd Ashish Kumar: अवरोधजन्य या सन्तर्पण का भी बताएं

Ayulink:most common hoe remedy is use of fenugreek, ginger, castor etc. Ginger is good for sandhivata

Vd Ashish Kumar: कैसे उपयोग करना है।

Ayulink: Similarly Fenugreek tea made from fenugreek seeds  are good

14929: i usly prescribe Rasana sapktata or maha rasnadi kashays with yogaraja or trayodasghanha

Ayulink: ginger powder form with diet or with water

14929: with agnitundi

Vd. Sachin Kadlag: When rakta is involved sthaanik rakta mokshan is sometomes useful

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: GINGER TAB. AVAILABLE IN HIMALAYA

Ayulink:Prepared medicines are lot available with ginger and other vata shaman herbs

Dr. Shekhar Gole: Ginger garlic paste along with castor oil for local application is also useful

14929: lashuna kshrera paka readucez pain

Ayulink: Rasna, ahswagandha, bala, guduchi, guggulu, nirgundi, shallaki all are herbs whichw e sue frquently

Vd. Sachin Kadlag: Ginger juice externally  in Aavarana janya sandhivaata or Saama condition useful to relieve upastambha and avarodhajanya shotha

Ayulink: yogaraj guggulu, sinhanad guggulu, rasnadi guggulu, tryodasang guggulu, shallaki all are guggulu preparations are most commonly practiced by vaidyas. pind sveda is also good for local treatment.

14929: along with horse gram can we use with ginger padte

Vd. Ahmed Savani: In decoction form i.e Kwatha or Phanta (personal experience) along with Jeeru (Cumin)

Vd. Manhar Prajapati: We are using agnikarm at pain point it works good

Dr. amit Jain M. P: Sinhanad gugul

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: So finaly we come to DIPAN PACHAN.  FROM WHERE ACTUALLY WE SHOULD START? Without dipan pachan no role of calcium supplements etc

Ayulink: Agnikarma is now in days becoming popular treatment

Vd. Ahmed Savani: This is really good, have to try on someone. Isn't for transient relief?

Vd. Manhar Prajapati: Will try

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Agreed, Agni Chikitsa is must!

14929: daily pichu can be used

Ayulink:we dont have actually scientific data avaibale for agnikarma. Thousands of practitioners are doing agnikarma, but very rare published paper on it

Vd. Ahmed Savani: That doesn't resolve the pathology, isn't?

Ayulink: and too with long term follow up records. How about kwath? and asava and arishta? anybody using it for sandhivata?

Dr. Shekhar Gole: Is agnikarma only pain management ?

Vd. Manhar Prajapati: It's syptomatic releif sometimes it cure also?

Vd. Ahmed Savani: But does that give prolonged relief in the complaints, I doubt 

Vd. Manhar Prajapati: Daily 10-15 pt we are use

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Dashmula- aristha & Kwatha, as it vatahara & shulahara both! Rasnadi Kwatha. Any Data you possess ?

Vd. Manhar Prajapati: First think daily we see knee pain pt is it really sandhivat according defination ?

29104: Panchtikhta ksheer basti is best in degenerative changes.. Osteo changes

Dr. Samir Suneri: Oil application of kapoor and menthe And after that some heat application like Linda swed is very usefull

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: So this would b my prescription If sever pain use -  Agnikarm Otherwise Dipan pachan AUSHDHI FIRST, Calcium supplements, ABHYANG SWEDAN , MAHARASNA KADHA. ANY GUGGLU  PREPARATION.IF SEVER DEGENARATION  THEN GOLD PREPARATION

Vd. Manhar Prajapati: What kind of dose u prefer?

29104: 450ml - 500 ideal dose

Dr. Subroto kumar Das: Aamvata starts from small joints like finger joints/ phalanges and then it may spread to other joints. It later cause deformity is joint as seen as Swan neck deformity in R.A. hands. Sandhivata on the other hand happens in weight bearing joints like hip, knee etc. Mostly sandhivat is unilateral in appearance.

Dr. Pulkit Baxi: Including BASTI

Vd. Sachin Kadlag: Guduchi ksherr basti 250 ml is given in my clinic

Dr. Supratim Bir: Obviously it resolves Pathology, it's a wonderful therapy. Need several sitting with medicinal assistance. It mainly works with instant aampachan

USA C. Monsanto: According to my research and cross-referenced with hundreds of field observations, I have explored Charaka's explanation of pragyaparadhana. I've discovered that there is a more fundamental level from where we can look at the disturbance of tri dosha, which is the level where prana, tejas and ojas get disturbed by what Charaka describes as the psychophysical actions that accompany the imagination of an immediate danger. According to observation, fear-control disturbs prana and therefore vata; sadness-anger disturbs tejas and therefore pitta and rejection-disassociation disturbs kapha. Areas that are affected in these subtle actions are fear-control - sthapani-basti; sadness-anger - nila/manya-nabhi; rejection-disassociation - adipati-hridaya-guda (including legs and feet). The way that fear-control expresses through tension and tightness. Sadness-anger expresses as heat, burning, swelling and inflammation. The way that rejection expresses is through pressure, heaviness and absence. The combination expreses as numbness, ache and pain, which is an composite expression of feeling powerless, frustrated and helpless.

In older age there is more fear and sense of loss of control and feelings of helplessness and powerlessness. Hence, more tension and pain. This tension and fear are negative vata, or prana, contracting or keeping sadness (heat) from expressing, producing burning. And when we suppress or reject this discomfort inside the body, pain arises. Pain is tight, burning and pressure or fear, sadness and rejection - negative vata, pitta and kapha. This will manifest in the areas where sthana is weakest and that relate to old physical and or psychological trauma. Each main marma-chakra relates to certain theme. For instance hridaya relates to opening one's heart to others or connecting with others. Arms extend from this Chakra, reaching out to others. When older people experience difficulties connecting on a human level and reaching out is difficult, and feel fear and or powerlessness, they develop pain and tension in the arms and hands, tension and pressure and or pain in the chest area. A precursor of osteoarthritis, heart problems and high BP. One can observe these signals long before the onset of osteoarthritis itself and guide patients, or clients to become aware of and resolve their emotional blocks. This is how we can approach from the point of view of Sattvavajaya chikitsa.

14929: use kshya janya kb taila shuddha bala taila maha narayana we can u use.

71473: Bala guduchyadi kashayam, Yograj guggul, Guggultiktak kwath tablet, Ksheerbala tail capsule, Along with panchakarma.....basti chikitsa.....yoga basti or matra basti....

29104: If there is swelling... Upnaham swednam Or dashmoola ksheerdhara goes well also.

Dr. Afzal mohammad qureshi: Nirgundi and sallaki maybe same drug

Vd. Ahmed Savani: Any paper supporting this fact? Pls do share Bcoz What I come across, patients feel better, complaints get relieved ...but the pathology remain as it is in MRI or any imaging studies...from the database of Global Agnikarma Centre, what I remember!!

Dr. Supratim Bir: In such way Helps to resolve avaran janna Vata prakop.

14929: usely dhahavantara taila usely i prescribe

71473: Dhanwantar tail, Mahanarayan tail, Dashmool  tail, Sahachar tail, Bala tail

Vd. Ahmed Savani: In some patients I tried using Dhanvantari Taila in Patra Pinda Swedana (Nirgundi)

Dr. Afzal mohammad qureshi: In sab telon ko milakar

Dr. Subroto kumar Das: They are different. Vitex nigundo and boswellia serrata. Refer D.G. Texts.

Vd.manisha Kanchare: I prefer shdangodak full day for aampachan

Dr. Supratim Bir: AK do cure almost every pain instantly. But in avaran janna Vata prakop the sustainability can be observed. In IVDP Agnikarma and niruha vasti both procedure cure the pain but physical change can't be observed in MRI. That indicates the modern Pathology is not the last word.

Vd. Shrinidhi: Prasarini taila in few pt gives good results also when given orally in 2 ml dose but no consistent result

14929: useful in dhatuksha with reduced degree of  movemnt  janaya

Vd. Hardik bhatt: Lashun kshir pak is good for aamavata . And all vat vyadhi disorders

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Compiled by - Dr. Dhruti Kagrana