Wednesday, August 31, 2016

Understanding and management of Stammering ( गदगदत्व) with #ayurveda....

Views shared by several ayurveda professionals and non-ayurveda people in discussion group:
All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.

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Next topic for discussion: Understanding and management of Stammering ( गदगदत्व) with #ayurveda
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Shushruta described Stammering in Nidan sthan- vatavyadhi.
In stammering Kapha with vayu obstructed sabdavahi dhamni(
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal:
Udaana Vata Praakruta Karma - Uraha Sthaanam Udaanasya Naasa Naabhi Galaascharyet, Vaak Pravruttihi Prayatnorjaabala Varna Smruti Kriyaaha.
 In Stammering We see Person Can't speak continuously & properly, So this is Vikruti of Udaana Vaata. (A.H. Sutrasthaana).
Dr. Suyog Kulkarni: According to Allopathy , stammering has strong psychological base. Do we have any such reference in Ayurved ?
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Vata dosh (Aakash +Vayu) itself is psychosomatic in natur. So, Udan and Pran vayu.
Dr. Supratim Bir: Prana-udan axis is involved mainly.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Causative factor:- Kidney disease, Heart disease, High blood pressure, Anemia, Antimalarial drugs-Quinine.
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Stammering observed so far on particular letters like B,F,L,M,P,R T,V,W. The first letter if lips/tongue touching then stammers, it does not seem to be psychological but must be connected with muscles of tongue & lips with controlling nerves I suppose, I observed many times that stammering is mostly in some particular conditions like fellow. if is nervous,scared,very happy or sad, may be seasons also are main concern, some cases if an edible oil massaged muscles come to normalcy to some extent, if dealt with love to remove fear I think case can improve to great position.
Dr. Mrugeshkumar Patel:

Dr. Jinal Thakkar: Udaan vayu vikruti is the root cause of stammering as we spoke on previous topic vaat and nervous connection here we can see connection of vaat with muscles as well.
Also we need to check Bodhak kapha as vitiation of it may also lead to avrodhatmak pravrutti of udaan. In case of vaat vitiation nasya with anu thail or shadbindu thail helps.In case of kapha vitiation use of vacha etc sangyasthaapak gana helps
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana:

In Bhavprakash madhyamkhanda :-
T/t of Stammering
Sarswata ghruta, Kalyanaja avleha.
Nasya, kavala, Gandush are also beneficial.
Dr. Mrugeshkumar Patel: Apply vachachura on toung. Tab Mental , shadbindutail nasya , gandusdhàn with sesam oil are effective.
LVG Shriram Gandhi: Common people use Akkalgara root with honey for stammering .
Dr. Dayanand Bothre: Rubbing of Akarkara churn on tongue also show good results in stammering
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Vacha with honey lehya.
Dr Jayesh Patel: Use Kalyanak churn (chakradatt) - gives excellent result.
Vd. Dhruti Nirav Bhatt: Sarswit ghrit and Akalkkara gives good result,
Suvarnaprashan has also effective result.
Vd.  Mahavir Vora: Use of naladadi ghrit from avp kottakal is usefull ref saharastrayog shangra
Vd. Binal Jagani: Brahmi ghrit nasya and vacha churna locally apply on tongue and gandush with vachha and saidhav siddh water.
Exercise with speaking words and sentence.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Massage on junction of tongue. Upper palate- Put Cadbury chocolate on upper palate and ask to test with tip of tongue is best line of treatment
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: speech therapy if no known pathological cause. Recital of Sanskrit shlokas that are tongue twister. the habit of stuttering gets corrected by habit of toungue-twisting shlok recitals with proper pronunciation and tone of sound. works best in children around 5-10 yrs age.
Dr. Jaya Sambhus: Chanting ramraksha is good for stammering
Vd. Amol Hingmire: Kalyanak leha applying on tounge.
Vd. Hardik bhatt, Idar:
Ram rameti rameti rame rame manorame .. Sahastr nam tattulyam ram nam varanane ...
Chanting this mantr in pregnancy .. The child's speech is very sweet  and clear. Kashay  ras yukt dravya gandush is good for gadgadtva
Dr. Malathi Arjun: Vacha suvarnam rubbed on tongue.
Dr. Sheetal Sumra: Akalkara churna for jivha pratisaran.
 Madi fal rasayan.  3spoon twice with 3spoon of water. Bruhatavatachintamani ras 10tab +guduchi satav 5gm+glucose powder 10gm - mix it make 30 pudi (packet) have it at rasayan Kal with honey and adrak swaras. Rasayan Kal is at 6.
Dr. Rajesh k Nikam: May I know fr which purpose madifal rasaynam is used
Dr. Sheetal Sumra: Vata shamak purpose.
Panchaindravardhak Tailam for Nasya 3drops in each nostrils
Dr. Rajesh k Nikam: Bt it's more  acts as an appetizer as per my knowledge.
Dr. Sheetal Sumra: Exactly...  Due to that our vata get dushit.
USA Gary Yuen: Besides brahmi, maybe other nervines would show some effect? Mandukaparni and jatamansi?
Dr. Jyoti Ashok: What is akkalkara?
Vd Tushar Trivedi MD: Akarakarabh in Sanskrit. Latin name : Anacyclus Pyrethrum.
Shri Minoo parabia: True. What we get in Gujarat is Spillanthus acmella - Marethi.
Gaurav Vashi: We all know the healing qualities that honey has. To cure stuttering take 1 table spoon honey and 1 teaspoon salt. Mix them well and rub it to the tongue.
Dr. Neha P. Bhatt: jyotishmati tailam 2-3 drops intake in early morning,
Dr. Bhavesh Modh: आवृत्य वायुः सकफो धमनीः शब्दवाहिनीः ।             नरान्करोत्यक्रियकान्मूकः मिन्मिनगदगदान् ।।So,  Treatment of  कफ आवृत  वात
Vd.  Mahavir Vora: For avaruta vath best drug lasunadi vati can we try it for stammering ?
Dr. Suhel Dalal: Lasunadi Vatu best drug for kafavrut vaat
Dr. Pravin Tirmare: How could we recognise kafavrut vata ?
Dr. Sanjay Londhe: Kapikachu beej for sublingual for every 20 min at least till sym reduce. Jotismati  Are useful in stammering cases
USA Gary Yuen: Astanga Hrdyam mention sneezing and yawning as vata. Agree. Maybe not immediate treatments but think similar treatments used with herbs might help. Snehakarma (oleation therapy) and svedakarma (sudation therapy). Vatahara ahara sevana (vata reducing diet)
Compilation courtesy : Vd. Kinshuk Hirpara

Wednesday, August 24, 2016

Relation of Neurology / Nervous system with Vata? ...#Ayurvedic perspective..

Views shared by several ayurveda professionals and non-ayurveda people in discussion group:
All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.

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Next topic for discussion:  Relation of Neurology / Nervous system with Vata?

Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Vat avrut rakta is major concern for numbness, Tingline pain, Power and grip are weak. Raktamoxan is basic line of treatment.
Dr. Jinal Thakkar: In vaatshonit chikitsa adhyaya charaka has mentioned gambhir vaat rakta to affect asthi majja dhatu. Vaat is the ashrayi of asthi dhatu hence vaat takes the samprapti along with dushit rakta deeper
Ayulink: Majority of all neuro problems described in modern science are connected with Vata dosha. Can we correlate with Prana Vata? Most pelvic nervous system disorders can be correlate with apana Vata?
Dr. Jinal Thakkar: Can parkinsonism be assessed in view of vyaana?
Dr. Devesh Kumar: We can corelate vata types according to 6 chakras.
Ayulink: Yes. That's we want to discuss and share opinions. Is (neurological disorders) it pure Vata disturbances? Or more?
Dr. Jinal Thakkar: "va" dhatu means gati or and gandha
So even cranial nerve disorders like anosmia etc can be related to vaata?..Just a proposition
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Digestive disorders can corelate with samana Vata, Pachaka pitta, ranjaka pitta, kledaka kapha, Apana Vata.
Dr. Devesh Kumar: वायु यन्त्र तंत्र धरः
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Urustambh chepter may consider with Gbs, Multiple sclerosis, Multiple myeloma, Spinal cord comparison.
Dr. Jinal Thakkar: Pittam pangu kapha pangu...Vaata is responsible for their gati as well And then.. In view of grahani..Samaan vayu is responsible for grahan pachan vivechan and munchan of food. Failing which grahani dushti occurs. And all of us know grahani is the sthaana of pitta dharaa kala And pitta dharaa kala is majja dharaa kala.
Bhadresh Naik: Anatomy of spinal cord is important to correlate with vat Majja..Snayu (ligament)
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Vata is a Amurta dravya (Not visible), we can feel it's function.Vata is 5 types Prana, Udana, Vyana, Apana, Samana. Without Vata gati nothing move in the body (Kapham pangu, Pittam pangu pangavo mala dhatunam Vayuna yatra gachante tatra meghavat), In nature also nothing move without Vayu, exa-- With the help of Vayu gati only we can see raining.
Dr. Devesh Kumar: But many of vata disorder can b corelate with vata vridhi chaya in prospective of karma of vata like pakshghat is karma chaya of vata
Dr. Supratim Bir: In ayurveda pran-udaan-saman-vyaan-apan are the key levels of intervention. Acharya nicely elaborated the range of each type specifically. So that easy diagnosis n intervention can cure d vyadhi. Above all the best part is the vitiation of vata has been defined in two points. Kshya n Avaran
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: We can feel Vata fuction in the body one r other always. Where is the Sroto Vikara-- 4 types Khavaigunya, Srotosanga,  Srotodusti, Vimargagamana. there only Vikruta doshadi moves & different types of Samprapti of Vyadhi can take place.(Charaka)
Ayulink: Are these all five Vata are entirely function separate? Particularly in neurology. If we consider gati of neutrons are due to vyan Vata then also we have to consider role of other Vata (location wise) in the disease process. Or just all five vata are capable to move like neurones?
Dr. Supratim Bir: Reticule endothelial system works independently with out interference of CNS. Nowadays considerd as gut brain. Similarly each vata plays individual role in disease pathology or physiology.
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Each cell contain Vata, Pitta, Kapha according to Panchamahabhoota Siddhanta, 2 types--Sthoola & Sookshma Pancha mahabhoota, Exa-- Jala mahabhoota made up of Pruthvi & Aap(Sthoola Mahabhoota  more in quantity --Tara), Teja, Vayu, Aakaasha r there as Sookshma Mahabhoota--Tama. So Aacharya's explained about Sarvam Panchabhoutikatvam.
Dr. Supratim Bir: But association of one or more types possible to result in complication
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: aakash- shabda, Vayu- shabda and sparsh, agni- shabda,sparsh and rup, jal - abv + ras, pruthvi- abv +gandha. In human cells all co-exist and dominant mahabhoot determines the functional and anatomical aspect. So without rup, ras, gandha  manifestation(vyakti of vyadhi) of Vaat vikruti is impossible. my thinking.
Dr. Supratim Bir: 1)Prana atra murdhaga 2)Udanasya punah......nabhyurahkantha 3)Samana agni samipastha 4) vyana hridi sthite 5) apana pakvwasayastha…..So the sub types are quite indicative for their main area of activity
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari:  Sthan.  if one type overtakes others sthanadhikar functionwise.. Aavrutta vat
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Roga & Aarogya Karana -- A.H.Sutrasthana 1st chapter, Kalaartha karmanaam yogo heena mithyati matrakaha samyak yogascha vijneyo rogarogyeka karanam.
Dr. Supratim Bir: Vayuna yatra niyanti tatra gachhanti meghavat…Vayu maintains equilibrium with P&K. Again creates vyadhi when fail to maintain d balance due to avaran that means obstruction in activity range or due to vata prakopak nidan hetu.
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Sthanam Vatasya tatrapi Pakvadhana visheshatha.  Even though vata fuction entirerly in the body but its main sight is below the nabhi (umbelicle), A.H.Sutrasthana.
Dr. Supratim Bir: Grahani is place of pittadhara kala . Again saman vayu is agni samipastha. So saman vayu also plays an important role in pitta activity.
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Vata Prakopa-- 1.Margavarodhajanya 2.Dhatukshayajanya.
Dr. Rinku Shah:
Pranvayu-Higher brain centre..
Udan vagu- Hypothalamus pituitary system..
Saman vayu- Neuro endocrine system…
Vyan vayu- Neuro endocrine system controlling transportation..
Apan vayu- Neuro endocrine system controlling reproduction and excretion.
Germany Helga Fuchs: I think Prana Vata and Udana have the main roule. Due Prana we  have direct contact, control over the hormonal Systems and I think Prana is the leader over all Vatas. If Prana is disturbed it leads to inbalance of the other. First treat vata. If movements of vata are blocked, deep and hot Massage is useful, if vata is weak, we need nutrient treatment.
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: According to Ayurveda Pancha Vata Sthana, Karma (Prakruta) --Aarogya, Vikruta--Roga (Vriddhi, Kshaya),  they explained about Vriddhi, Kshaya of  Vata, not types, they considerd as exa Pranavata, Udanavata vikrutijanya etc. Vyadhis.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Santarpan and uptarpan play major role in treatment
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Pathophysiolgy of neurological disorders as per Ayurveda:
The sub doshas of vata namely Prana, Udana  and Vyana  are primarily involved in the neurological disorders. The chronic imbalance in the Apana can also upset Prana, thereby causing insomnia, hallucinations, delusions, depression and schizophrenia.
The primary site of Apana is in the Pelvic region and it governs the functions of the bladder, rectum, menstruation, ovulation, ejaculation and proper bowel movements. An imbalance of the Apana function could quickly upset the Prana, thereby weakening the Agni (digestive fire) of the Majja Dhatu (Nervous tissue).
The weak Agni causes accumulation of Ama or toxin in the nervous tissue which could trigger an auto immune response and cause diseases such as multiple sclerosis.  This complex interaction between doshas causes a chain reaction involving Pitta (Sadhak Pitta) and Kapha (Tarpak Kapha).
Udana Vayu is responsible for memory and mental energy. When affected causes memory loss and fatigue, dementia and Alzheimer’s disease. If Prana Vayu is affected due to direct trauma to head or due to, too much stress, too much thinking or too many negative thoughts, one may develop tics, tremors, in-coordinated movements and later diseases such as Parkinson’s disease.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Basically we consider neurologic disorder as a vataj vyadhi. But we never to elaborate p or k..Dhatugat vyadhi …We must focus on this point..Or according to morden science it's related to viral..This is right time we many patients..having viral neurologic problem..Like…Facial palsy….Gbs…Multiple sclerosis…Multiple myeloma…Of course line of treatment given on ayurvedic etiology outcome is good.
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Samana Vayu: Whereas prana vayu represents the force of attraction, samana vayu represents the force of absorption, pulling the impressions we are drawn to toward the center of our being. For example, samana vayu carries nutrients from the intestines into the circulatory system, and the sensations of things we touch are carried from the skin to the central nervous system. When samana vayu is functioning properly, impressions are properly absorbed. When it is in a state of dysfunction, absorption becomes difficult, and malnourishment or numbness may occur.
"sensations of things we touch are carried from the skin to the central nervous system"
Means samana also plays role in nervous system!!!Can anyone explain this? I’m not understanding this correlation between saman & CNS.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Unfortunately we lost sensation of touch
What healing touch we can't emaje of power
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Means samanavayu relation with psychology??
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: No psychological effects. Cell-Neurons-Micro and macro circulation-Circulation of blood make soothing effects
Because of that after massage patients having good effects.
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Vat= vayu÷ aakash mahabhut  Shabda(sound,)+ sparsh(touch) r unique to vat dosha. so connection betwen sensation  of touch
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Vata chikitsa - Taila is pradhaana.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik:
our patients we must have a good attitudes, Manner, Blessings to patient, Faith, Moral, Respect, Make half treatment. It's worth massage for mankind.
Shri Minoo parabia: Epilepsy, Diabetic neuropathy, Amnesia, Palsy. We use combination namely nervon 2x3, Valporin dependency reverted.
Dr. Bhavesh Modh: नास्ति तैलात्परं किंचित् औषधं मारूत अपाहम्लसुनस्वरसे सिध्धं तैलमेभिश्च वातनुत् ।निर्गुण्डया मूलपत्राभ्यां गृहित्वा स्वरसं ततः तेन सिध्धं समं तैलं ... पान अभ्यंग पूरणम्।
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Vata ~Aakash mahabhut. ~ consciousness, heart intelligence tapping in 2 universal satvic qualities.  Vata dosha  Control with Satvikta, lessening rajsikta. manovah strotas Shuddhi essential in all diseases as Pragyaparadh main cause of all diseases. a way of Balancing Aakash mahabhut of dushit or aggravated Vaat.
Ayulink: Can we say that CNS is Vata? Or Vata is CNS? Or something else?
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: CNS is anatomical. Vata is functional aspect of all systems. CNS is Rup. Vat has only shabd and sparsh, no rup ras gandh.
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Modern scince believes only in Pratyaksha pramana (Evidence),  But Ayurveda follows Pratyaksha, Anumana, Aptopadasha, Upamana, Ukti (to understand Shastra & Shastraartha's these r helpful & for proper dignosis & trtt also) According to yogashastra 72,000 Nadi'es r there, Ida, Sushumna, Pingala
Dr. Nitish Dubey: In my opinion we have to assume vata as a physiological intity instead of anatomical intity. Vata is something which is in nervous system. But vata is not nervous system..Can we compare electrical discharge of CNS with vata????
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Wherever gati is there that is Vata, Nadi movement (function) is also happen because of Vata only.
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: CNS is not only vata, Pathologies of the nervous system are termed Vata Vyadhi, meaning a disease of vata nature. Thus, nerve pathologies cause symptoms commonly associated with vata, such as pain and alterations of motion. Even still, vata dosha is not always the cause of the problem. Vitiation of pitta dosha leads to inflammation and over a long period of time can burn out the myelin and nerve tissue. Vitiation of kapha dosha may slow down nerve conduction, decrease the rate of processing information or cause blockages resulting in the aberrant flow of nerve impulses. Ama further complicates the condition when present. (
Germany Helga Fuchs: Yes, but I understand, if we controll movements, less indisposition will be. Kapha, Pitta aggreavatet, is symtom/result of wrong movement. Too much of something, let it be hot or cold, give pressure, and vata get out of order Easy said. Normality means dosha in dhatu state, have normal functions, can do her job. Malas  normal. Dosha common means that what make sick. Vata prakrti is vata dominant, and there we can see the tendency to different Problems. If we do not control, problems manifest. If we see the site of dosha, we see kind of sickness. 5 pranas allways the same power, names only shows the movement and gives Information witch area in body is affected or work normal. Same with P, K.
USA Gary Yuen: I forgot what are synonyms of dosha. Mark? Imbalance? Excess? Lack of equilibrium or homeostasis? I thought that in classical ayurveda and Caraka, dosha itself is excess, imbalance, mark imperfection and lack of mastery of Self (atman).caraka Su 1 seems to say that.
Slovenia Anoop S. Anand: I guess Doshas are functional entities while dhatus are physical entities..Doshas when they are normal do their respective functions while dhatus constitute our is said -dharayanti iti dhatavaha.When this doshas get aggravated or deranged the problem starts. Vata as a dosha has lot of functions..referring to movements of different form functions of CNS is one of them. the electrical impulses of CNS is a part of vata. Doshas when vitiated they dont fuction properly and be a cause for diseases
USA Gary Yuen: I think we are used to considering everyone having a particular dosha instead of being always tridoshic, having all in perfect proportion. As received from Brahma, Brahma himself as well as Indra and all the gods, their doshas are always without excess. That too is the goal for those rich in knowledge, masters of oneself etc. Where is the first mention of dosha? Somewhere in Caraka Su 1? There, does it mean trouble and affection?
------------------------------- Quantum physics and Vata comparison -------------------------------------
Germany Helga Fuchs: It is a very complex system. gross and subtile elements are the basic of tridosha and manodosha. If she are not in balance, in healthy state she start to disturb.  Food needs Agni to be digested well and to create a well working body and mind system. Kala is another factor in this process.
We have five directions in body and all must be working well.
Protons-Sattva, positive Nature,
Electrons-rajas, negative Nature,
Proton and Electron, neutral Nature. We find in them negative or positive Nature, work and positive or negative quality of particles. Negative or positive work as concentration of moola prakruti we find in tanmaatras the subtile Elements, and negative or positive loaded particles like protons, electrons  and neutrons in mahabutha, gross Elements.
Electrons are rajas, Protons are sattvic and Neutrons have tamasica Function.
Pic is from  my teaching scripts, Copyright by me. My teachers was doctors from jamnagar University.

Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: photons? corelation to ? pure Agni?  how to interpret beta decay of Neutrinos?
Germany Helga Fuchs: Doctor has to look of state of prakrti and vikrti. How dosha appear in each person he can see the quality of vikrti and quantity of part of neutrons, Proton and Electron. Protons can be named as sattva vata, sattva pitta. As sattva is never a disturbing quality i understand this as healthy state and Function of Vata, of Pitta. No need to name this because body and mind are fine. Only disturbance are named. Dosha gives Information in witch quantity we find in one cell negative, positive or neutral functions. About this doctor know the influence in the system and can give medicine in needed quality. This is why people can have same kind of disturbance, but given different dosic or different herbs of medicine or treatment. Medicine are measured as she works about her quality’s in body. Medicine itself are from elements formed. And doctor see how much, how long etc body need it. He always look about the tree qualitys.
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: free radicals-highly reactive -ve ions of O2. ~ saamta ~ Vata disturbance. need to think on these lines to better understand. Vata disturbances on cellular level.and how EMRs can cause it .
Dr. Nitish Dubey: Then how we decide medicine on the basis of charge? Charge on atom is transient state so how we decide a dosh on the basis of charge?
Germany Helga Fuchs: One must be a Mathematik. just as information, the following declaration as pic. 1 Fünftel means, 1 part of 5 Fünftel = 5 Fünftel = 1 as complete.
Germany Helga Fuchs:

Basic is that one Element comes out of the others, we start with akash, then vayu, agni, jala, prithvi. To understand dosha we must understand creation of nature.

Dr. Nitish Dubey: But I m asking about charge not about element
Germany Helga Fuchs:

See list before
Dr. Nitish Dubey: Vaikarik is positive it's ok. But it is proton???
Germany Helga Fuchs: See Pic before physical Constitution of mahabutha then you know about charging.
Dr. Nitish Dubey: Seen but I m not understanding that point
Can u plz explain?
Germany Helga Fuchs: Vaikarik means vata, yes? Vata is rajasic means negative= Electron. Only Sattva is Proton
Shri Minoo parabia: Photons are packets of energy in quantum physics. The energy per photon is calculated as wavelength ÷ 12400=MeV.
Beta are electrons.
Neutrino are like mesons.
If you want to know something specific, please do ask.Alfa are two protons and two neutrons.Gamma is wave radiation.
Dr. Nitish Dubey: Negative of electron and negative of vata
Is it same?And if we consider vaikarik  as electron then what about mahat and aham in physics?
Germany Helga Fuchs: Negative Nature tends to action, this we see in vata
Dr. Nitish Dubey: Vata  is always negative?
Shri Minoo parabia: This is beyond my capacity. I can just clarify the understanding in science. Let learned experts correlate.
Germany Helga Fuchs: Mahata and ahamkar in earlier state. From them come out the individual qualitys

Dr. Nitish Dubey: Then mahat and ahmkar is not found in physics
Germany Helga Fuchs: Yes, it is before, subtil. But vata is not vaikarika state.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani:
Pra= toward
An= movement
Prana= movement toward core(nabhi) of the body
Ap= away
Apana= movement away from the core (nabhi)of the body
Ud= upward
Udana= upward movement
Saman= no movement
Prana, samana and apana complete a cycle, and balance in movement of these vata called ANULOMAN.
वायु यंत्र तंत्र धर
Tantra= hard ware(antomy)
Yantra= Soft ware(physiology)
So vayu is cause of normal as well as abnormal anatomy and physiology
Vata is only one, but it is classified in 5 types for easyness of treatment
Dr. Nitish Dubey: How vata can be electron? That's my concern Can any one explain
Germany Helga Fuchs: Yes, it is before, subtil. But vata is not vaikarika state. Vaikarika is positive nature=sattva, Proton.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Vata can be in vaikarika state, pls refer Charaka sutra 12- vata kalakaliya
Germany Helga Fuchs: Yes, sattva vata.
Dr. Nitish Dubey: Electron?
Dr. Nitish Dubey: Tejas is negative in nature it's ok. But Tejas is electron??Any explanation behind that?
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Udana is related with Autonomic nervous system. Susruta has consider udana as पवनोतम(pavanottam)- Superior among all vatas.
Germany Helga Fuchs: Vata in vaikarika state is healthy and work in normal Modus. Vata is movement and by this it have rajasic quality. Agni/tejas is 4:5 rupa, 1:5 sabda and sparsha.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Prayatna is one karma of udana, in Nyaya darshana, prayatna is of two types.1) ichha dwesh purvaka 2) jivan yoni prayatna Jivan yoni prayatna means all involuntary movements which are under control of autonomic nervous system. So why susruta has stated Udana as Pavanottam and charaka has stated that bala is because of udana

Dr. Nitish Dubey: I just want to know what is the theory behind comparing  with electron? Or it is a assumption?
Ayulink:This is something beyond our understanding. This may be hypothesis. But this is very interesting. Discussion is going in new direction.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Cosmic dance of Shiva is cause of evolution of universe as well as destroy of universe. Modern physicist believe in this, so why they have put a statue of NATRAJ before of CERN PHYSICS LAB where experiments are being done n large Hardon collider.
Germany Helga Fuchs: I understand that in the way that all what is seen in the world in  categories.  Positive, negative and neutral. Protons, Electrons, Neutrons. The Mixture of those quality’s creates different states of matter. With special quality’s each. So I learned to understand the subtle quality of akash,vayu, tejas, apa and pritvi. This are quality, if we understand it in gross order it may be wrong. To understand it as active quality with different meanings, for me it was more clear.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: There are 45 types of vata In some book related with yoga
Dr. Nitish Dubey: modern science still trying to discover how universe originate. Like collider experiment..We have our explanation like avyakt mahat and ahnmkar. They say something is before big bang….May be that something is avyakt and mahat and Ahankar is beyond there understanding
Germany Helga Fuchs: Yoga is great, work soft with your Prana, this will bring the 5Pranas/5Vatas in right direction and body and mind is better . no knotes about thinking to much.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Actually whole universe is covered by Satva raja and tama. In wooden furniture, tama is 99.99%, while raja and satva are 0.0000000001%. While in yogi purusha, satva is 99.99% and rajas and tamas are 0.000001%.Many times we can see a mad man lie on footpath for many days, in this person satva is decreased and tama increase.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Its interesting that why charaka has described 5 types of vata in Vatvyadhi chikitsa instead of Vatakalakaliya.
Germany Helga Fuchs: I think different meanings are about the different schools in Ayurveda. Saamkhya is most famous, as I know.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Charaka has described vatvyadhi in clear Cristal form.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Vata is amoorta , so we can correlate vata with neurophysiology. We can very well. Just need to understand.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: That's beauty of science, There were different views, there will be different views,विमलं विपुलं बुद्धि आकुली कुयाँत
Germany Helga Fuchs: Vaydias learn a lot of controvers discussion.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Vata is responsible for movement at cellular level as well as universal level.
Dr. Nitish Dubey: Can we do discussion about vibrations of particle. Each  and  every  particle  in  the  universe  is  in  a  state  of constant  movement  in  the  form  of  vibrations  occurring  at  a  particular  frequency. Can we found those vibration in our body? That particular frequency decide the nature of element. Means state of matter
Then we can say prithvi jala aap agni akash may be a form of vibration on different frequency
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Ayurved and spiritual science is out of imagination
Thats why we are far behind the knowledge. It's not verbally describe it's experience. Tuni and pratinuti is best example of apan dusti vyadhi
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: All panch mahabhuta Play a role in universe we experience of jalmahabht in all over worldwide. Similar in our body it's play wital role.
Dr. Nitish Dubey: we have vata in our body. Also in the universe
Vata has a frequency. If any disturbance happen in that frequency nature try to correct that by its own frequency And may be I m wrong but it create zero potential state. Means deformity free state. If both frequencies r equal then zero potential. Balance state . Vata is in balance state. Now if problem in vata means there is disturbance in frequency of vata. Then we have to correct by element of same frequency. May be in panchmahabhuta. May be in nature.That's my opinion.
Germany Helga Fuchs: I learned that Ayurveda correct first irregular (vata) habits to find balance. Vikruti shows the quality of disturbance and we treat hot with cold, and cold with hot quality. Cold and dry is vata, cold and wet is kapha. Hot is Pitta. Start with the dominant dosha and the advised treatment for v,p or k. Heat eat dullness, cold  softens activity. Relaxion can be created due hot or cold quality. Short said.
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Vata; gas: in nature may be of an X frequency to Y frequency, nature has every reason to generate it, either in atmosphere or in body of animal kind, to element vata or to dilute it's potential, may be mitten ways possibly incorporated, but we cannot completely arrest its origin of generation, nevertheless, we neutralize to solve our purpose for time being it's a management or maintenance therapeutically though, let's put it this way: although being presence of every remedy of any branch, vata, kafa, pitta yet remain under carpet.
Dr. Nitish Dubey: And if we talk about treatment portion of vata
We can use different frequency of phonations like mantras ( may be a possible explanation of uses of mantras) And we can use light energy of different frequency for treatment of vata disorder
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Vata if we see with Ayurvision' looks different than that of allopathic eye is entirely separate, as allopathic medicines have effervescence generating effect which itself vataj.
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Quatum theories ( Tunneling, Supperimposition, Entanglement) , wave-particle duality of light/ photons, and Sankhya darshanokt 25 tatvatmak Purush. To understand Vata and its disorders , we need to understnd Aakash and Vayu mahabhut.  Also Agni, jal, pruthvi mahsbhut, as Vata (esp. aakash mahabutpradhan gunas) is not manifested by itself without Agni's Rup, Jal's Ras and pruthivi's Gandha. Quantum biology ~~ Sankhya darshanokta Purush utpatti. need to think more for clarity.
Canada Nitin Shah: In continuation of above, The structural aspect of our being is made of the 5 elements and the functional aspect is made of 3 doshas and if you see that the elements are also born from the womb of consciousness and the entire universe is a journey of consciousness into a matter and the journey of matter starts with panch tanmatras to Panch Mahabhutas. Till that consciousness remains as an energy state. See the theory of cause and effect. Similar to e=mc2
In the beginning of the cosmogenesis the energy was there but in the avyakta stage and which gave a birth to ether element, from everything evolved and in the end everything is going to merge. That's is nabha or Akash. Over a time a subtle vibration took a place within the space and which gave a birth to the moment and which gave a birth to Vata as air and air is a principle of all movements and from there all the elements took a place over a time
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: chapter No 7, 8 , 9 regarding atom and physical constituents and Mahat tatva….The Vaisheshika Darshana.
Compilation courtesy : Vd. Dhruti Kagrana

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