Immunity - Ayurveda

Views shared by several Ayurveda professionals and non-Ayurveda people in discussion group:

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All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.

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Next topic of discussion: Immunity - Ayurveda

Ayulink Ayurveda: How long it takes to improve immunity, with all our powerful immuno-promoters? or immunity boosters, as AYUSH suggested? or I can re-frame the question: how much time is needed to increase immunity in one healthy person ?jand should  we (everyone) start having such immunity promoting herbs?

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https://youtu.be/w8mNjLRbUBI?list=UUPLAYER_ayulink

Immunity is the balanced state of multicellular organisms having adequate biological defenses to fight infection, disease, or other unwanted biological invasion, while having adequate tolerance to avoid allergy, and autoimmune diseases. Enjoy interesting information on Immunity from experienced Dr. Prerak Shah in this episode.

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Vd. Gurumahantesh: I think sir it depends on person's agni bala and prakruti

Shri Minoo parabia: Innate, adaptive and passive are the 3 types of immunity, one has.

Innate we inherit with birth.

Adaptive we develop against the cause or invasion of the vectors.

Passive is by the process of immunizations like vaccines.

Ayulink Ayurveda: I think the rasayana herbs takes min 2 weeks to promote immunity.

Dr. Supratim Bir: In Ayurveda do we have such immunity booster by direct reference?

Or the principles of Agni dipan, aama pachan, srota shodhan and dhatu poshan are being taken care of to produce immunity

Branko Markovic: depends of doses

Shri Minoo parabia: So innate is there and passive developed immediately. Adaptive takes time. It is the adaptive immunity, you are questioning. This depends upon personal capacity, decided by Ahar, vihar

Branko Markovic: indeed it seems a lot of things as per texts to come to good immunity but for "healthy" person I think it is good to follow seasonal taking of rasayanas to keep up with kala, agni etc..

Dr. Savad Kerala: Susrutha has mentioned approx  7 days for nourishment of sukra dhatu and ojus sara of sukra

Dr. Supratim Bir: Ayurveda principles are not always needed to get interpreted with modern terms. Ayurveda do prevent and cure with its own parameters.

Ayulink Ayurveda: then how long we should continue it to consume?

Dr. Supratim Bir: What about if the person is having agnimandya and srota barodh ? How will we assess the sukrasar formation ?

Ayulink Ayurveda: practically now patients are asking so many questions about immunity, herbs, and formulas prescribed by our renowned practitioners and its effect - direct an indirect on viruses.. This is really a headache to convince all of them about the role of rasayanas and ayurvedic perspective

in this time of pandemic, most people are feared and want to have something like quick acting - kind of magic which can save their life.

lots of messages over social media does not serve purpose and there are many confusions are there. Finally such patients have started asking many questions, though I clearly mention that I am not a Corona expert. and I have no separate suggestions for anybody. Please follow government guide line. Still few questions are there, which I wish to discuss here with all of you.

Branko Markovic: well with Amalaki you cannot go much wrong and also with Guduchi

Dr. Savad Kerala: Obviously we should maintain agni because sukra is 7 th dhatu and we should correct jataragni and rasa dhatawagni

If we compare ghee and milk both are madhura guru snigdha... but gritha still do dipana ojus is like gritha... dipana is the thing which can fight against anything and snigdha madhura is giving bala....

Dr. Vikas Sharma Punjab: Immunity depends on  Agni bal if we improve agni property then ultimately we improve immunity. More dhatu dushti take more time to improve immunity.

Branko Markovic: From all Rasayna Haritaki and Amalaki are mentioned as ones which can be taken for long time. Some of my ayurvedic frends even take Guduchi form more then 2 years everry day and they dont have any problem like diseases

Ayulink Ayurveda: (1) should we ask all of our patients to start taking immunity promoting herbs?

(2) How long it will take to build immunity - aprox time? No theoritical answers

(3) How long one should consume such herbs or products?

(4) Are these products really works? How to evaluate the actions? How they will come to know that there immunity is now improved and good enough?

Branko Markovic: All my family is taking Amalaki and Guduchi daily small doses..and they rearly get sick

Dr. Vikas Sharma Punjab: Here not only we pasify tridosha but also we do work on manas dosha also

Dr. Savad Kerala: Its done by looking into rasa dhatwagni itself if rasa dhatu is formed properly then it takes approximately 7 days for sukra dhatu nourishment

Branko Markovic: Had few cases of Corona in Croatia. Some with symptomes lasting for even 10 days of fever, dry cough, pain in chest body each..all of them wore treated within 7 days only!

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Many drs suggesting Chloroquine as a prophylaxis in Covid19. Chloroquine is Tikta rasa, I think Guduchi is also Tikta Rasa and helpful to combat Covid19, to improve immunity.

Branko Markovic: Some 15 persons I gave Guduchi, Amalaki and Tulsi/Yashtimadhu and they are taking combination for 1 month and not single person report any symptomes and they move around also

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: It's not always true. First we should understand DhatuPoshana nyaya.

Dr. Vikas Sharma Punjab: I think rsayan provide instant immunomodulater effect.if we want stable immunity we should fortify our agni with meda yukta ahar etc

Ayulink Ayurveda: I think Chloroquine is from cincona bark....same with sudarshana?

Branko Markovic: In the world we live in with all polution (guduchi take care of ama, garavisha and amavisha), food which is depleating agni, manas also..my opinion is that it is good to take something daily to keep up

Dr. Laxmi Divya: Pippali vardamana rasayana mentioned in rajayakshma chikitsa in particular to swasa kasa can be an option to think at this particular time

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Guduchi and Sudarshana in high dose is very beneficial in viral condition.

Branko Markovic: Yes Guduchi often is prescribed even in doses up to 25 capsules of kashaya daily

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: I myself take even 20-30 tablet per day. I also prescribe it in my family members

Branko Markovic: yes! Same with Amalaki..even Yashtimadhu can go in big doses, Tulsi etc..depend of persons..

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: One should consume more water when Amalaki is being taken in large dose, otherwise there is chances of formation of stone. As amalaki having many minerals

I took Tulasi in very large dose when I was in tour of South India. It gave good relief in Respiratory problems but I had burning micturation as side effect

Ayulink Ayurveda: yashtimadhu - licorice in big dose can produce vamoit (as it is vamanopag) and also I have read somewhere that it higher BP. So be careful for that matters.

Branko Markovic: Indeed! It is not for long time and doses are goin like in Vardhamani Pippali Rasayana.. slowly up and then down

It is said that it is increasing BP. And here in EU everybody are paranoid by that but so far with bigger doses I dindt notice that

Rasayana is the means of obtaining the best qualities of body cells and tissues and is able to defeat aging and disease. All rasayanas are ojovardhaka i.e. promoter of ojas or immune strength in the body, imparting vyadhikshamatva i.e. immunity in the body. The mode of action of rasayana remedies has been deliberated for long. Many scholars consider rasayana effect as the prabhava (specific therapeutic effect) of these remedies without really giving rational interpretation. However, Professor RH Singh et al (1972) have suggested that the rasayana remedies and measures act at three levels and produce subtle molecular nutrient and immune-enhancing effect with a range of secondary impacts such as improved nutritional status, immune-enhancing, longevity, healthy aging, promotion of health and prevention of disease. The three levels of action are:

At the level of rasa acting as a direct nutrient enriching the nutrient value of plasma.

At the level of agni acting as digestive and metabolic booster.

At the level of srotas acting as srotoprasadana promoting the microcirculation and tissue perfusion. The net effect of all the three levels of action is an improved nutrition.

Dr. Pankaj Chhayani: Rasayana topic is interesting as it's a branch in 8 branches लाभों पायो हि शस्तानां रसादीनां रसायन!  As per this definition, Prashasta (High quality) Dhattu can't be produce without Normal state of Agni, and heathy state of Srotosa. Rasayana must be used at end of all treatment. Without giving Rasayana therapy treatment never be completed as per Chikitsa definition given by Caraka

Branko Markovic: What is interesting that even without all treatment before. This is not per classics but from experience of my mentors and myself it is Functioning without all treatment

Vd. Gurumahantesh: In short advice patients to undergo Rutu Shodhana and prescribe Rasayana. And vaidyas forget to practice in the run

2168: Yasti is supposed to cause a person to retain sodium and it also interferes with potassium metabolism. I haven't studied the mechanism but I have seen recommendations in secondary ayurvedic texts to use a low salt and high potassium diet.

As far as how long it takes to build immunity, I think a certain regime of rasayanas might be enough to kill viruses. Take a wide range of antivirals like triphala, manjistha, arjuna, other tree barks like banyan and ashvattha, flowers (rose, agastya, chrstanthemum, etc.).

Immunity itself I think takes a long time to build. How many people never get flus despite no vaccine? How many people rarely if ever get colds? How many rarely cough or even sneeze? Such is one sign of immunity but I think still not enough. As said, the diet that allows one to live for maybe 200+ years I think is the normal diet. Triphala rasayana in its quantity is not recommended without reason. Hominids like chimps get thousands of mg of Vitamin C daily, thousands of mg of calcium from very bitter green leaves (think classical vegetables), etc. Anyone with excess kapha is already immuno-compromised. Anyone that wears glasses, if they are eating the same diet that caused such a condition is already immuno-compromised.

Vd. Sachin Kadlag: For healthy person , following all ideal  rules of  Aachaar Rasayana,  initially doing Shodhana till Puraana Purisha gets out , then it takes 30 days to get complete benefits by Kutipraveshik rasayana , ( Now a days due to lockdown situation is automatically in between Kutipraveshik and Vatatapik conditions) , and then after complete Rasayana again at least 5 to 7 days extra has to follow Aachar Rasayana and Kutipraveshik rules to the maximum level possible , Home quarantine situation in a strong , healthy minded person is a different kind of Kutipraveshik Rasayana /Rejuvenation.

For the persons doing  regular duties and  who are healthy Vatatapik rasayana through out the year to be taken such as in the form of  Rutu haritaki , Only Amalaki , Chyavanprasha , Guduchi ksheerpaaka with cow ghee  ( Remember Ksheer ghruta Abhasa is best Rasayana Charaka sutrasthana 25/40) .

All this medicines should be taken early Morning empty stomach... nothing should be eaten or drunk after that for at least 30 minutes. 

In current situation also ideally 40 days period should be told to patients to improve immunity...40 days period is  what I learnt in my college days by My Guru is ideal for Rasayana.  By coincidence it matches with old definition of quarantine period which I think is also 40 days .

Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: विकारो धातुवैषषम्यो।।       What is Vikar(disease)?   Dhatu Vaishmya (inequalibrium) is called Vikara.                                    धातुसाम्यक्रिया चोक्ता तन्त्रस्यास्य प्रयोजनम्।।  The object(Prayojana) of Ayurveda science is the maintenance of equalibrium in Dhatus.                              याभि: क्रियाभिर्जायन्ते शरीरे धातव: समा: । सा चिकित्सा विकाराणां कर्म तद्भिषजां स्मृतम्।।३४।।  Such of the actions as bringing about equalibrium of Dhatus, called Cikitsa(treatment). So purpose of Cikitsa is to bring equalibrium of Dhatus. All Cikitsa do this. After achieving equalibrium of Dhatus, it's also important to maintain its equalibrium and to produce high Quality (Prashasta) Dhatus. High quality Dhatus can be produced only by  Rasayana Cikitsa.   कथन शरीरे धातूनां वैषम्यं न भवेदिति। समानां चानुबन्ध: स्यादित्यर्थ क्रियते क्रिया।।३५।। The purpose of Cikitsa is also to prevent disturbance of the equalibrium of Dhatus and maintain  their equalibrium. This is done by Rasayana Cikitsa- लाभोपायो हि शस्तानां रसादिनां रसायनं।।  Rasayana is therapy by which one gets the Excellence of Dhatus.

2168: opinions about kakamaci? Seems few here regularly use it. It is listed as a vegetable and rasayana in Charaka. In my area, it's available only in the spring. There is a question of glycoalkaloids and possible overuse and as modern medicine would call it toxic effects. Some note to double boil. Still commonly used in Tamil Nadu as are many classical vegetables, dried fruit is available as manathakkali.

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Compiled by - Dr. Dhruti Kagrana