Friday, June 24, 2016

Discussion on Mamsa dhatu & #Ayurveda.....

Views shared by several ayurveda professionals and non-ayurveda people in discussion group:
All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.
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How to increase mamsa dhatu (muscle and ligaments) with diet plans and herbal supplements?
Vd. Piyush Prajapati: Mash increases Mans Dhatu.
Dr. Sheetal Sumra: Musli can be use to increase muscle & Ashwagandha
Dr. Anup Torane: Aja mansa rasayan, With ashwagandha
Dr. Sheetal Sumra: Gokshur,  vidari, bala, These all medicines can be used… Diet wise dates helps in form of pak-avaleh, Kajur pak
Dr. Prerak Shah: please mind that we want to increase mamsa - snayu, not fat (meda dhatu) pl consider this. Thnx
Dr. Devesh Kumar: मांसं मांसेन वर्धते
Dr. Prerak Shah: some friends suggest protein diet: but can any one  explain protein diet - how it works on snayu or mamsa dhatu according to ayurveda? I think to suggest protein diet is more or less western philosophy.
Dr Jaydeep: Cissus quadrangularis (asthi shrunkhla)- is well researched herb specially for muscle building. And also for osteoporosis.
Vd. Piyush Prajapati: Aja mans nu sewan karwu..
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: My experience suggests don't treat tha same dhatu but from stert from rasdhatu then further dhatu. Kedarikulya nayay should be apply….Increase the dhatvagni first then mash asthivardhak medicine
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: Manspachak yoga    from. Charak samhita chikitsa sthan, jwaradhikaar.
Vd. Gurumahantesh: I usually start from laghumalini vasant as it helps clearing rasa dhatu dushti….Later you can shift to mamsa rasa basti  Or any other medicine of your choice
Anand Javeri: Can anyone tell about the proportion of the above things like ashwagandha, musli, asthi shrunkhla, gokshur, vidari, bala, etc. And ideal time to consume these? To be consumed with what?
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: To overcome mansadushti mansapachak yog  will be preferred as it overcomes Dhatwagnimandya, followed by Dates, kharjurasava…. Rasayankal ie, early morning empty stomach
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Santarpan and aptarpan should be considered
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: Massage with CHANDANBALADI OIL,
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Shastishali pingswed of gotbeef is advised
Anand Javeri: Different people suggested different things to consume for increasing muscles & ligament mass.
My question is:-
1) When to consume these (ideally)?
2) In what proportion?
3) Along with what should these herbs be consumed?
Dr. Prerak Shah: @Anand: Yr points are valid....but in ayurveda the answer is well known, it depends on yr body constitution, age, sex, season, vikruti, agni, satmya etc……..even for the same purpose, the suggestion of herb, quantity of herbs, anupan -with what substance you should take, all aspects may be totally changed……That's why yr questions are unanswered.  I also want to know from friends who suggested protein and what is the logic of protein in ayurveda...and how can we co-repate it with mamsa dhatu?
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Basically we must know the causes of muscular wasting and degeneration of ligaments…..Many complicated cause are their Neurological,Spinal, Tuberculosis , Leprosy….So please first rule out the causes then apply medication
Vd. Kinshuk Hirpara:  1stly we have to work on mansa dhatwagni.  Many males who wants to have muscles more in body use protein powders and they contain creatinine which causes water retention in body. That is harmful. I would suggest to correct mansa dhatwagni so that can help digest proteins perfectly and improve metabolism. Instead of protein powders use actual protein sources.its very tough but long term it's beneficial.
A combination of Neem, patol, trifala, draksha,  musta,  indrayava.  That will regulate mansa dhatwagni. According to my parents experience( Vaidya pravin and sushama hirpara) ashwagandha, Shatavari, galo,  gokhru and amla also increase mansa dhatu.
Yoga practice is a must for building muscles.
Dr. Prerak Shah: The response from  Dr. Jyoti Ashok (group 2) is very good.
Mamsa vriddi from mamsa .For vegetarians equivalent to mamsa like Masha,.
First step increase the agni, then second step snehana, swedana(vATA will b controlled) ,
third step - then Shodhana.After Shodhana, give rasayana .
for example : Brihat charaka grita or chyavanprash or ashwagandha avalehya or shatavary avaleha depending on the patients.Also go for Vyayama to build the muscle mass(not gym).
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Basically we must understand the etiology and causes
We are very excited to start medicine
Because of that we miss important diagnosis
Vd. sandeep Ahirkar: Always we have to think about agni if it's key to dhatuposhan if it WL increase definitely Mansadhatu in WL increase then we have make different diagnosis of that conditions
Grahani,kshaya,pandu,satat jwar ,Vata vikaras by taking in consideration these disease we have to plan treatment
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Now a days Lead poisoning is causes of muscular wasting and degeneration of nerve
Dr. Prerak Shah: Yes. Before we suggest any treatment, finding out the causative factors are very important. Why there is loss of mamsa dhatu? What are the possible causes? Also it is important to check balance or status of other dhatus too.
Vd. Neeraj Pooner: Agray in charak -mans  bhrhiniyam, Kukkut balyanam
Vd. sandeep Ahirkar: Sir kukkut (cocks) which we have to take it's not urbanized which ppls giving Harmones injections to get more mansa to make more money it will increase more diseases
Vd. Neeraj Pooner: Achinta ,harsh, santarpan ahara,swapan(samyak nidra), aparsang krisho varah eiv pushyate ( astang hridya sutra 14/34)  Acc to shusruta - paysa ( khsir kakoli, ashwagngdha , vidarigandaha, shtavari, bala, atibala, nagbala, dughda , dadhi, ghrit, mamsa, shali, shastik, yav, godhum vihara,,- divaswapan, bhramchrya, avyam ,bhrihan vasti
Acc to charak-laghu ahara plus santrpan .Navanna ,gud vakritt , snighdh madhur vasti ,tailam abhnga ,gandh malya Sevan,shukal vas, yatah kala dosha avsechana , rasyan and vrishya yog , snighd udvartan , nav madya, grymaya anup mas ,
Canada Nitin Shah: Particularly muscular strength and endurance type of activities. Vriddhi hi samanai hi sarvesham
So the substances have similar properties can increase the mamsa Dhatu and yes according to kedari kulya nyay, if a person is anemic or deficiency in rakta Dhatu can't expect to have a great muscle mass. So rakta Bala vriddhi can lead to mamasa Bala vriddhi too
 Vd. Tanuja Gokhale: Raisins, black currents, Dates, figs, apricots are good for rakta as well as mansa vruddhi.
Canada Nitin Shah: How about the greens? Some of the greens have a good amount of iron as well certain essential amino acids. Protein's final digestion product is amino acids  And protein is like a building block for muscle and ligaments
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Respected vd preraksir Similar but opposite of subject Please comment on Myopathy disease
Dr. Prerak Shah: Yes. We wish to touch that subject too. Let us understand the basic of healthy mamsa dhatu. We will go with its disorders. Thnx
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: 45age Bilateral upper and lower extremities muscular wasting wrist and ankle
Power-Grip-Sensation are poor,Numbness,Muscular wasting,Discoloration of skin,Shoulder girdle distributed,Mri,Nerve condition test are normal,No history,Diabetes hypertension,Traumatic injuryKindly suggests Diogenes,Realated to subject disease
Vd. Hardik bhatt, Idar: Regular excersise is also increase and give strength to muscles ...
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Regarding muscles upgrading: it's also hereditary, but one of the reasons responsible of the disorder or lake of muscles is excessive & often intake of nicotine-amid, drug edict, frequent consumption of pain killers, malnutrition, etc, due to which body cell being intoxicated at great extent thus deteriorating takes place & muscles faces shrinkage, To overcome this stage, first toxin be flushed out the metabolism, good balanced variety of foods,fruits,tonics with light exercise & more over regular good massage is done as that of the wrestlers (mull) good hot sponge also instigative
A patience required to regain the muscular body without any steroids
Vd. sandeep Ahirkar: management of karshya. Baladi Vati
Fresh Churna of roots Shatavari Ashvagandha,
Vidarikanda, Bala, Atibala, Nagabala.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Please add bilateral Wrist and ankle drop with wasting
In case study
Dr. Meghdoot Satvekar: Mamsa Dhatu – It is compared with muscle tissue. It gets its nourishment from Rakta Dhatu. Its main function is Lepana –It gives shape to the body parts and it sticks to the bones, helping in locomotor activities. It is controlled by Kapha Dosha. Usually Kapha Dosha increase and decrease leads to Mamsa Dhatu increase and decrease respectively.
Dr. Prerak Shah: Let's discuss mamsa dhatu disorders too. That would be nice to make a list of such diseases.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Answer of cases
Lead poisoning……..The only disease in bilateral ankle and wrist drops is lead poisoning
It's effects on motor and sensory neurons…….Myelin sheets also effective
Neurologic involvement, Increase blood lead level more than 50mmol
Psychological distribution, Wasting, Numbness, Discoloration of skin
Amalibij chirna, Pipaltvak kwath, Gomutra, Gudduchi. Asvagandha, Bala,
Mild laxative, No panchkarma applied…..Within three months of treatment lead level normal
Precaution: Avoid lead exposures, Injury, Since two year patients lead level normal, No wrist and ankle drop, Weight gain, Walking is normal, Power and grip are normal, No need to prescribe any massvrudhikar medicine
Due Maggie's children may develop lead poisoning so please kept in mind lead…Thanks
In morden chelating medicine line of treatment according to leval of lead level
Dr. Meghdoot Satvekar: The doshas can also travel into mamsa dhatu and create tissue changes to the quality of mamsa dhatu, called dushti.
If Vata dosha travels into the mamsa in excess, there will be acute pain in the muscles, spasms, tremors, fatigue, and a wasting of the muscle with dry skin.
If Pitta dosha travels into mamsa, boils or red skin will appear and there will be inflammation, fibromyalgia, fatigue, and tendonitis.
Kapha in the mamsa dhatu will show as swelling, flaccidity, excess ear wax and nasal crust with possible uterine fibroids, fibrocystic breasts, heavy and “sticky” muscles, inflexibility.
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Is Serum uric acid a dosha of the mamsa?
Dr. Meghdoot Satvekar: 
Increased Mamsa dhatu -
Fibrocystic changes in breasts
uterine fibroids
muscle flaccidity - lacking firmness
muscle hypertrophy
undue growth of muscle
fibroma & myoma
Decreased mamsa dhatu
Carving for protein
Emaciation - abnormally thin / weak
dislocation of joints
loss of muscle power
atropy / wasting of muscles
Common primary muscle disorders include inflammatory myopathies, including polymyositis, which is characterized by inflammation and progressive weakening of the skeletal muscles; dermatomyositis, which is polymyositis accompanied by a skin rash; and inclusion body myositis, which is characterized by progressive muscle weakness and wasting. Other common disorders are muscular dystrophies and metabolic muscle disorders, he said. Muscular dystrophy affects muscle fibers. Metabolic muscle disorders interfere with chemical reactions involved in drawing energy from food.Neuromuscular junction disorders impair the transmission of nerve signals to muscles, Schabbing noted.
The most common neuromuscular junction disorder is myasthenia gravis, which is characterized by varying degrees of weakness of the skeletal muscles. Schabbing said. "There are many types of peripheral neuropathies that can be secondary to other medical conditions, such as diabetes, or due to a variety of other causes, including toxins, inflammation and hereditary causes," he said.
Motor neuron disorders affect the nerve cells that supply muscles, Schabbing said. The most recognizable motor neuron disease is amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or ALS, commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease.
- reference site
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Mansa dhatu means not only muscles..
Peshi= whole muscles
Mansa dhatu= Muscle fibres
Mansa dhatu kshaya wasting of buttocks, cheeks, lips, pubic region, thigh, chest,axilla, calf, abdomen and neck...This shows decrease of dhatu , not any disease..Here quantity is decreased
Toda, malaise, looseness of arteries are also symptoms of mansa dhatu kshaya, this shows disease process due to mansa dhatu
Dr. Prerak Shah: Ok. Let's now go with different kind of myopathies and muscular wasting. Let's discuss in deep.
 Dr. Meghdoot Satvekar: Muscular dystrophy can be defined as a group of muscular diseases that weaken the muscles 
·        Progressive muscular wasting
·        Difficulty in walking
·        Change in walking pattern
·        Limited range of movement
·        Difficulty in breathing
·        Scoliosis
·        Poor balance
·        Difficulty in climbing
·        and getting up
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Aahar dravyas only can increase dhatus, medicine have little role in increasing dhatu..
Lots of non-veg articles are mentioned to increase mansa dhatu...
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Muscular dystrophy is related to dna comanly depurination and deamination
Dystrophin stabilized cytoskelation and dystroglycans it's regulate calcium level
So think about protiens pachan may related to aam
Balanced to calcium imbalanced
Experts are involved in this comment
Dr. Meghdoot Satvekar: Muscular dystrophy -
Treatment -
A) Ensuring proper nutrition and growth of the muscles
B) Maintaining a good range of movement for all the joints
C) Proper nutrition to the body as a whole.
Useful  Herbs / Medicines
Mansrohini, Marich, Triphala, Guduchi, Guggul ,Tejapatra, Nirgundi, Masha,
Bala, Ashwagandha
(1) Mamsagni Rasayana
(2) Sukumar Guggul Rasayana
(3) Ashwagandharista
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: What is the prognosis of under 19 Childrens
Dr. Meghdoot Satvekar: The prognosis for people with muscular dystrophy  varies according to the type and progression of the disorder.
Some cases may be mild and progress very slowly over a normal lifespan, while others produce severe muscle weakness, functional disability, and loss of the ability to walk.
Bad prognosis in children below 18 yrs with muscular dystrophy  adulthood with only moderate disability.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Vd prerakbhai, Please guide about muscular dystrophy
It's wrost problem for parent's and children……Usually life span is 19 years only……..I tried in adult patients results are encouraging
But Childrens no results get in not a single children all are died under 19 age……..So what can we do for victims children
Dr. Sheetal Sumra: Well I have seen one patient(kid) who was suffering from rickety myopathy, in my college days which was treated by my sir..  He used to give mansa ras basti with ghruth in it..  And balatail massage as it is a kastha sadya rog so result was slow but that kid atleast started walking with support
Vd. Gurumahantesh: I tried to treat one case of deuchennes muscular dystrophy with shashtika shali pinda sweda nearly for about 2 months. Soon after the cessation of treatment , the patient's weakness and pain recurred, .hence I stopped treating
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: We treated 4 pts of DMD with Majja siddha fails anuvasan Rajyapan basti, sastishali pind Sweda, abhyanga and orally medicines during PG..All pts got relief and reports were improved  but pt got problems at home after discharging from home...
Dr Modh Bhavesh: मांसधरा कला = Deep fascia. Or  inter muscular septa
कला नाम श्लेषमस्नायुअपराच्छन्नो शारीरवस्तुविशेषः
रक्तादिधातुधारणमात्रार्थ  ।
Not for धातुनिर्माण
शरीरबृंहणे नान्यत् खाधं मांसद्विशिष्यते
मांसमाप्यायते मांसेन
Vd. Sunil Suthar: Very poor prognosis in DMD ,
There is no future these kind of patients , so as per my opinion plz declare totaly right matter which can be occurred in future , dont give any hope for future !
Because in our science also "asadhya" word is der !
Every time pt wants miracle it is not possible ! Because we are not doing miracles , we are treating pt with science ! Sorry to say but some of our colleagues try to recover these kind of patients to take name & fame and they give positive hope to family but complete fake thing!
Expert opinion always welcome here !
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Actually, there is no Rustam in medical science not even modern medicine who can not give guarantee Dr can try their best to even animal-kingdom to cure to save is bit farther to say though,
Any mammoth disease takes 6 to 12 weeks to respond, there is no magic remedy !
myasthenia graves Deflazacort Designated Fast Track Status for Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted Fast Track designation to deflazacort (Marathon Pharmaceuticals) for the treatment of patients with Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy (DMD)
Dr. Bhavesh Modh: As of 2016, there is no specific treatment or cure for muscular dystrophy. However,physiotherapy, aerobic exercise, low intensity catabolic steroids such as prednisone, anddeflazacort (for which the U.S. FDA has designated fast track status in January 2016 to conduct clinical trials) can help to maintain muscle tone. and Becker muscular dystrophyConsumer-friendly information about human genetics from the U.S. National Library of
Duchenne muscular dystrophy (DMD) is the most common childhood form of muscular dystrophy; it generally affects only boys (with extremely rare exceptions), becoming clinically evident when a child begins walking. By age 10, the child may need braces for walking and by age 12, most patients are unable to walk.Life span ranges from 15 to 45, though there are a few exceptions.Researchers have identified the gene for the protein dystrophin which, when absent, causes DMD.Since the gene is on the X chromosome, this disorder affects primarily males, and females who are carriers have milder symptoms. Sporadic mutations in this gene occur frequently.
Dystrophin is part of a complex structure involving several other protein components. The "dystrophin-glycoprotein complex" helps anchor the structural skeleton (cytoskeleton) within the muscle cells, through the outer membrane (sarcolemma) of each cell, to the tissue framework (extracellular matrix) that surrounds each cell. Due to defects in this assembly, contraction of the muscle leads to disruption of the outer membrane of the muscle cells and eventual weakening and wasting of the muscle.
Dr. Bhavesh Modh: Patanjali research foundation  studied the effect of 18 months of yoga practice and ayurvedic drugs on 16 patients with DMD. All patients were attending the outpatient department in a hospital in northern India. The age of the patients ranged from 4 to 23 years (mean: 11.2±5.3 years). Diagnosis was based on muscle biopsy. As can be expected, the serum creatine phosphokinase (CPK) value was high in all these patients. Yoga interventions were based on the traditional text,Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, compiledcirca 900 BC. Ayurvedic medications were in the form of poly-herbal tablets and liquid decoctions. Patients learned yoga for a week and were then followed up at home by telephone for 18 months. Mobility, self-care, and level of comfort were assessed based on responses to relevant questions. Out of the 16 patients only 10 completed 18 months of follow-up. Of these ten patients, three patients practiced yoga regularly for 18 months, five patients were irregular in their practice, and two patients stopped the practice before completing 18 months. At the end of 18 months a positive outcome in mobility, self-care, and respiratory ease was noted in the three patients who were regular with yoga and ayurveda. Out of the five patients who were irregular with yoga and ayurveda, three took some other alternative treatment and two reverted to corticosteroid treatment. The two patients who took steroids had marked increase in weight, which caused difficulty in balancing. The main side effect of corticosteroids in patients with DMD is obesity. In the three patients who took other alternative therapies but were irregular with yoga and ayurveda, the self-care and mobility deteriorated while respiratory ease remained unaltered. One DMD patient out of the two who stopped therapy died during the study. This patient had respiratory problems and was bedridden due to a fracture of the lower lumbar spine. Respiratory disease in DMD is a major cause of mortality.
Thus, after 18-months of follow-up we found improvement in four out of ten patients who were regular with the yoga and ayurveda regimen, which suggests that there are some benefits to be had from these practices. Definite conclusions would be possible with a larger number of subjects but the need for long-term follow-up makes such a study difficult to organize.
Article information
Indian J Palliat Care. 2011 May-Aug; 17(2): 169–170.doi:  10.4103/0973-1075.84544
PMCID: PMC3183612
Patanjali Research Foundation, Haridwar, India
Address for correspondence: Dr. Shirley Telles; E-mail: moc.liamg@selletyelrihs
Dr. Bhavesh Modh: Treatment of DMD:
At present no treatment is known in any system of medicine which has any definite influence upon muscular dystrophy. According to the research, Ayurvedic treatment involving medicine and Panchakarma massage, Yoga and Pranayama have shown definite protective influence and longer survival upon muscular dystrophy.
Ayurvedic treatments:
Mamsagni Rasayana which contains Curcuma longa, Withania somnifera, Terminalia arjuna, Tinospora cordifolia, Suvarna bhasma, Praval, etc.Ashwagandha arishta / Bala arishta
Panchakarma therapies:
Abhyangam with Shat bala prasarini tailamPizichil with Chandan bala lakshaadi tailamTil-Mash Pinda Sweda with use of herbs like Shatavari (Asparagus racemosus), Bala (Sida cordifolia), and Ashwagandha (W. somnifera), and Nirgundi (Vitex negundo), and Haridra (Curcuma domestica), and Daru Haridra (Berberis aristata), and Mustaka (Cyperus rotundus), and Barbreng (Embelia ribes), and Mamsa Rohini: (Soymida febrifuda) as additional ingredients to Til, Masha, unpolished rice and wheat bran, all cooked in the decoction of Bala (Sida cordifolia), Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) and milk.Anuvasana basti with Shatbala-Prasarni oil or Mustaadi yapan basti.
Benefits from the Ayurveda treatment:
Delays or slowdowns or reverse the progressive muscular degeneration.Retards the muscular degeneration due to fat deposition.Weight lossReduces serum Creatine Phosphokinase (CPK) levels thus helping to reduce the muscle damage.Allows longer survival by increasing muscle CPK enzyme.Improves muscle tone and functional abilities.Helps to stabilize the Sarcolemma membrane defect in the muscle fibres.It also remove excess fat deposition in the muscle and increases muscle power.
Yoga and Pranayam:   
Pranayamas – Anulom-Vilom, Kapalbhati, Bhastrika.
Yoga asana - Pawan muktasana, Padmasana, Veer bhadrasana, Parvatasana, Surya namaskar.
Diet:Avoid saturated fats and refined foods.
Sea vegetables, fruits, whole grains, essential fatty acid and legumes should be taken.
Other treatments:
Physiotherapy is very helpful in DMD.
Vitamin E, B-complex and minerals like Selenium too help to reduce the effects of DMD.
Conclusion:Though genes are considered to be the culprit for the disease, there are a good number of DMD patients who do not have a family history of the disease. So, a person should undergo tests to diagnose DMD and contact Ayurvedic doctors at earliest to help such kids to be independent and have a long life.
(P.S: As every human being is different according to Ayurveda, all have different cures. So, kindly consult us or an Ayurvedic doctor before taking any herbal medicines.)
 👉 This post is written by Dr.Jaina Patwa who is a Chief Ayurvedic practitioner based at Vile Parle, Mumbai, India. contact  on +919833998817
 Vd. Dhruti Nirav Bhatt: Cow ghrit, Ashwagandha ghrit helpful to build muscles. Basti treatment is very iffective for that and for muscular dystrophy also.according to Sapt dhatu vrudhi kram  we should give dipanpachan Aushadh.
Food: Halwa, Sukhdi, Udad dal(black gram),Chana (yellow gram) and Desi gud (jegury ),Makhan (white butter) with Sakar (suger)
Bunty Gandhi: Cow ghee, gugulutiktam gjrita for nourishment of asthi sandhi majja,  ashwagandha, vidarikand, kavachbeej, ksheerbala avarty could be beneficial for muscular dystrophy
Vd. sandeep Ahirkar: Nice explanation by dr.jha sir
Dr. Bhavesh Modh: Duchenne's muscular dystrophy (DMD); the dystrophin -glycoprotein complex appears to confer stability to the sarcolemma. Primary deficiency of dystrophin may lead to secondary loss of sarcoglycans and dystroglycan.  Disruption of dystrophin - glycoprotein complexes weakens sarcolemma, causing membrane tears and a cascade of events leading to muscle fibre necrosis.. this sequence of events occurs repeatedly during life of a patient with muscular dystrophy.. DMD may benefit from either replace defective gene or missing protein ( dystrophin) or implement downstream corrections (e.g. skipping mutated exons)..ayurveda; maansa is maatrija bhaava ie x-chromosal disease.. in DMD deficiency of maansaagni is present so saara bhaaga(dystrophin-glycoprotein complex) is not produced and leading to riktaani mansavaha srotaansi (muscle necrosis)  poorayitvaa anilo bali(ch.chi28/18)  maansagata vaata and manifests gurvangam.............. shramitam ati artham ( undue fatigue).. etc..(ch.chi28/32).. t/t vireko maansamedahsthe niruhaa shamanaani cha (ch.chi 28/93) so we have to think about drugs  acting on maansaagni , "saamaanyam vridhi kaaranam " for replacement of specific maansa dhatvaansha...shaman and niruha for both maansa and vaata..
Basically dhatu nirmaana is being affected so there is less saara bhaaga utpatti  and in turn weakening of dhaatu ie necrosis..since there is rikta srotas due to necrosis so vaata prakopa occura to fullfill srotas and in turn there is pseudohypertrophy.. so i think initially there is maansa gata vaata , later due to pseudohypertrophy there is aavrita vyaana ie maansaavrita vyaana..t/t; vrihat vaata chintaamani rasa , laghumaalini vasant , pravaala panchaamrit rasa , combination of ashwagandha shataavari balaa kapikachchhu maasha saarivaa manjishthaa mustaa amritaa aamalaki haritaki vidanga daarvi bilva pippali... snehana ,pinda sveda, maansa rasa basti/yaapanaa basti , physiotherapy and hydrotherapy..  
Germany Helga Fuchs: Yes Dr. Gurumahante, shashtika pinda sweda is very useful. It is done as treatment over 3 months or longer, dayli in a hospital in Kerala. It nutrients nerves and spine to, and help a lot.
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Sir want to know more about myasthenia graves  & its treatment
Germany Helga Fuchs: Good posts all, thank you. Sure Yoga is helpful, but surya namaskar only possible for pt who are strong enough to stand up. Hm, have to think about. But I think asana to increase prana, shamana vayu, vyana v should be helpful. All pranas are disturbed in this condition, apana not free to.
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: We yet come to understand and basic principles etiology of myopathy
Family counseling to prevent such a genetic disorder
Please discuss etiology point of view to better service to human beings
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: I visited Ipcowala polio foundation at Malav lake, ahmedabad where they also run a clinic for Muscular dystrophy. There are about 20-30 pts of Muscular dystrophy on every saturday.
Consanguinity was found  one of the main cause in muscular dystrophy...
There is one sloka in Rugveda for treatment of Genetic disorder.. Apamarga churna is indicated to prevent genetic disorder..
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- शुद्धे गर्भाशये मार्गे रक्ते शुक्रे अनिले ह्रदि !!
- वीर्यवन्तं सुतं सुते ---                                 (A.H.Sha.1/8)
According to Ayurveda, age of reproduction for female is 16 year and for male is 20 year. During this age(early age) of female, the ovum will be pure without any cytogenic defects.
According to modern science, Female Fetus before even takes birth, they start their 1st meiotic division in the ovaries for the ova development and they slightly carry out the some steps of 1st meiotic division. And then freeze the 1st miotic division at a special stage which is called deplotene stage.
After that female keep all those cells arrested in deplotene stage in which chromosome and genetic material is loosely arranged and more vulnerable to environmental and other types of mutagenic influences.
Female is born & she reaches at the age of puberty, then menstrual cycle start & at every month some of the frozen cell (arrested in deplotene stage) are reactivated & complete the meiotic division which is going to be matured Ovum.
As female age keep on increasing, the chances that her premature gametes with open genetic material where genetic material is arrested in deplotene stage that has more and more chances of being influenced by the MUTAGENIC substances. And baby is more vulnerable to cytogenic disorders.
So why Ayurveda suggests young age for Reproduction...
☝☝This is to prevent genetic diseases☝☝☝☝
Ayurveda can do a lot in prevention of genetic disorders. Proper counselling, shodhana before conceive and all Ayurveda procedures during pregnancy along with all Samsakara can prevent genetic disorder..
I have seen one successful case peventing a genetic problem in which Canadian physician strictly warned couple for pregnancy, but we got success  after all of these procedures and delivered healthy child, even Canadian physician was amazed...
Dr. Bhavesh Modh: श्रृणु मांसप्रदोषजान्
अधिमांस अर्बुदं कीलं गलशालूक शुण्डिके
पूतिमांस अलजी गंड गंडमाला उपजिह्विकाः विधान्मांसाश्रयान्  ।।
&  we can't discussion about  it yet..
 Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Arsha is called as Mansankura.
Dr. Bhavesh Modh: मांसाजानां तु संशुध्धि शस्त्र क्षार अग्नि कर्म Chakrpani also described  Kil as a arshrog…In charak chikitsa  Ch.28 including all disease of myopathy described as ( मांसआवृतवातदोष ) Vatvyadhi chikitsa .
Shri Minoo parabia: The tissue may be inherently weak due to genetic disorder. Or may be due to acquired mutation at gene level. I think nothing much can be done.
However, if the disorder has arisen due to malnutrition or external factors, vat vyadhi treatment does help. Now it is almost impossible to arrive at the decision by routine examination.
So in the interest of patient offer some treatment at least to improve the quality of life, may be hither to considered incurable.
Spondygo oil mixed with Jyotismati oil orally has helped in my experience. Erandavleha is also good.
Boosting of nervous system is also proved to be of great help. I recommend Brahmivati ot Nervon +
Vd. sandeep Ahirkar: Suvarna malini vasant,laghu, malini vasant,rasaraj rasa,vasant kusumakar rasa these medicine having good result in mansa dhatu vikaras
Dr. Anup Torane: Suvarn malini vasant+ amruta satva hav satishfactory result in any typ of mansa kshay
Dr. Meghdoot Satvekar: Muscular dystrophy  Abhyangam with Balaswagandha Laxadi Thailam, svedan, Shiro Dhara, for the Long Term Management of Muscular Weakness. Swarna bhupathi ras, Rasaraj Ras, Agnitundi Vati, Yogaraj Guggulu, Laxadi Guggulu, Aswagandha awaleha
-------------------------- end of comments from active group -------------------------
Dr Ganesh pawara.: समाने समाने वृध्दी..Eat nonvej...
Vd. Vishal Rajparia: Protein diet with exercise
Dr. Sujata Vaidya: Like replaces like
------------------------------------------ end of comments from group 1 ---------------Vd. Pulkit D. Patel: ⁠⁠⁠तेषां क्षयवृध्दी शोणितनिमित्ते सु.सु.
तेषां हे सप्त धातुंसाठी आहे
     धात्वाग्नि अधिक - धातुक्षय
     धात्वाग्नि मंद|    - धातुवृध्दी
अनुमान प्रमाणाने धात्वाग्नि वृध्दी मांद्यासाठी रक्त प्रमुख घटक मानता येईल...
Colombia Dr Mario Herrera, Neiva, Huila: How is increase of mamsa dhatu associated with any western medicine pathology?
Dr. Prerak Shah: @Dr. Mario: This is the question, we want to know from you. How u can co-relate it in modern terms?
Vd. Pulkit D. Patel: this is good idea by that active member have increase there knowledge
Dr. Gaurav Makan: Proteins are used for developing muscle mass.. So, protein supplements like cheese, soyabeans, lentils are some veg sources and non veg sources include meat, liver, egg
Vd. Pulkit D. Patel: madhura skand aoushadhi is also have good result.....
Dr. Gaurav Makan: Mams se mams ki vridhi hoti hai... Is what told in ayurveda.. So according to that concept too.. Nonveg sources which contain maximum amount of amino acids are the best source for developing mams(muscles)
Vd. Pulkit D. Patel: vyayam and abhyanga also do mamsa vrudhi....
Colombia Dr Mario Herrera, Neiva, Huila: One is the conditions is cáncer cachexia. But usualy red meat it is not recommend
Dr. Gaurav Makan: Yes Dr. Prerak sir.. In egg we have to take white part that is a source of protein.. And not the yellow part that contains fat..
South Africa Tamlyn: Since mamsa dhatu has snigdha and guru gunas those foods which possess the same qualities such as nuts specifically brazil nuts are good for nourishing mamsa dhatu, consumption of lentils which are nourishing such as urad dhal and moong dhall also help to build mamsa dhatu (ofcourse in moderation). Also including protein rich foods such as chicken and eggs also help build muscle. Foods that are rich in fiber such as apples and grapes also have great benefits for the same. Ample exercise such as walking, cycling, running and daily routine of yoga and pranayama is also beneficial. In terms of herbal supplements madhura skanda dravyas such as shatavari, ashwagandha and yastimadhu can be beneficial but one should first consider prakruti and vikruti.
Dr. Ravi Dewan: Mahamasha tailam & mahakukkutmamsha tailam abhyang increases mamas dhatu according to saamanya Guna vardhanam principle.
Dr. Prakash B N Bangaluru: Mamsarohini twak kashaya is good.
Dr. Jyoti Ashok: Mamsa vruddhi from mamsa .
For vegetarians equivalent to mamsa like Masha,.
First increase the agni,then sandhana,swedana(vATA will b controlled) ,then Shodhana.
After Shodhana,rasayana .
Brihat charaka grita or chyavanprash or ashwagandha avalehya or shatavary avalehya depending on the patients.
Vyayama to build the muscle mass(not gym).
USA Irene CCA: Food that increases mamsa dhatu such vegetable proteine (legumes, tofu, sitan, grains) and animal protein such as milk and meat
Also Abhyanga with sesame oil
Argentina Barbara Ferraris: sources of vegetable protein beer yeast. tofu and also control samana vayu. lift weight and some aerobic exercise. always eat after training session.and do not skip breakfast since energy intake while fasting comes from mamsa tissue
Dr. Kiritbhai G.: asvagndha avleh with warm milk 3to 4 month take
Opd Dr. Nehal Shah: Ashwagandha Ghee,  Oil,  or Powder according to Patient's clinical condition.
Tonic (Nutritive-Bruhan Karma ) Herb Amalaki, bala, Ashwagandha, Bhringraj, Bibhitaki, Gokshura, Guduchi, Guggul, Shatavari,Yastimadhu,  Vidari kand, Vidanga,  etc.And cane Sugar, Coconut,  Dates, Ghee, Honey, Milk, Raisin, Sesame seeds,as food.
Rayomand Parabia: We are using aabha Guggul for tendons and ligaments also
Australia Vd. Neerja Ahuja: Bala, ashwagandha, shatavari, sesame seeds , sesame oil massage
Dr. Lalit Kansal: शरीरवृदिकर भावा कालयोग सवभाव  आहारसौषठव अविघात
आहारसौषठवम >आहार विधि विधान आहारविधिविशेषायतन
Dr. Nikhil Baxi: मांस धात्वांग्नि मांद्य causes wasting, प्रथम मांस धातु अग्नी वर्धन आवश्यक give निंब, पटोल, त्रिफला, मृदविका, मुस्ता, वत्सक in every pt, then शोधन चि चिकित्सा then रसायन,
Neck, cheeks thigh main regio of मांस धातु
पृथ्वी महाभूत (बृहण) कर्म अपेक्षा
Internal &external oleation importnat
Vd. Rupa Raval: Muscular dystrophy.Post injury muscle wasting,Muscular weaknesses due to nervous problems
Dr. Gaurav Makan: Kwashiorkar and Marasmus to start with.. Wasting of muscles occur
Dr.Yogesh Gorakhnath Patil: Basti chikitsa  is key role to treat muscle wasting
Vd. Kinjal Patel: Nirgundi patrapinda swedan in pseudo hypertrophy….. Vesawar Kalpana in muscle wasting
Dr. Gaurav Makan: Shashti shalik pind sweda has magnificient role in muscle wasting and dystrophy
Dr.Yogesh Gorakhnath Patil: 👌👌 shashti shalik
Dr. Nikhil Baxi: GBS - we got very promising results mahanarayan oil & pinda sweda qith bala ashwagandha.vishtinduk vati useful if stiffness present.
Dr. P. A. Deshpande: For the treatment of muscular dystrophy I am using methods to correct digestive, circulatory and nervous system. It's a autoimmune disorder hence to correct the route cause detoxification, alkalinisation and boosting immune system is necessary. For correcting GI tract colon irrigation, for liver bottle gourd, cucumber and juice of green leafy vegetables. For alkalization lime and coconut water. For immune system soup of goat leg or soup of bhendi tomato and one teaspoon of gum powder. For strengthening  muscles exercises by giving tension by elastic cord as in photo. For nervous system ozone blanching on spinal cord and head. Pranayam, exercises and alkaline diet has no option. Excellent results to improve muscle power and strength and restoration of muscle  power.
Dr. Nikhil Baxi: manspachak draway are useful in in early stage.
Dr. Shakun Palkar: Tvacha n Vapa are  Upadhatu of Mamsa  so while  giving  treatment of tvacha one  must keep in mind
--------------------------------------------end of comments from group 2 --------------Vd. Ekta D. Patel: ⁠⁠⁠Shasti shali pind sweda, aswgandha are useful.
Vd. Binal Jagani: In diet black dates with milk very beneficial
Dr.Sandeep Saluja: Would they help increase muscle strength in frail elderly?
Vd. Binal Jagani: Shasti shali pind sweda helpful in this
Dr. Hiral Sengal: bruhanigan drugs....vidari kand ,xirkakoli,kakoli aswaghandha.....udad dal..also. in diet..udad dal ..vth milk.
Dr. Sreedevi N V: Deepana pachana then brimhna chikitsa?
Dr. Manjula Ranagatti: Ajamamsa Rasayana
Dr. Sreedevi N V: Vidaryadi ghrta,koosmanda rasayana, Balaswagandhadi taila fr abhyanga.. Mamsa pustikara ahara like ksheera,mamsa w cant advise divaswapnam na?
Dr. Supratim Bir: Sarbada sarba bhabanam samanyam briddhi karanam. So jangal mamsa seban with agni dipan
Dr. Sreedevi N V: Jeevaniya gana,vidaryadi gana drugs
Vd. Avni Kaneria: Masha pind swed....
Vd. Ashvin Dhamsaniya: बल्यादि वर्ग - बला अतिबला एंड्री etc
Vd. Dilip Kantariya: According to bhavprakash nighantu,in Amrafalaadi varga mentioned that banana(kadali)
As apakva kadalifal acts vrushya and brimhaniya,and ksata- ksaya vata nashak…..but also pakva phala acts as  ruchi and mansakrut.
Dr. Prerak Shah: Let's discuss mamsa dhatu disorders too
Dr. Sreedevi N V: Mamsa dhatu kshaya z included in muscular dysptrophy….. In phakka roga also mamsa dhatu also decreased……In rajayakshma, Anorexia nervosa, also
Vd. Ekta D. Patel: Mamsa prdoshaj vikar:- Adhimansa – Alji, Arbud-tumor, Galshaluk- Sundika, Putimansa- Kill, Galgand-goiter, Gandmala-tubercluloied lymphadenopathy.
Dr. Prerak Shah: Ok. Let's now go with different kind of myopathies and muscular wasting. Let's discuss in deep.
Dr. Chirag Vaghela: Godanti bhasma for muscle wasting
Germany Dr. Keerthy Sankalp: In muscular dystrophy mamsa kshaya is present due to sroto avarodha.  So here at first agni deepana should be done and dhatvagni shd be corrected n later brumhana chikitsa should be followed……..Rasayanas like narasimha rasayana,  ajamamsa rasayana also helpful depending upon the condition
 Vd. Khyati Jariwala: Ashwagandha tailam,mahamaash Tailam....abhayanga
Vd. Yashpalsinh Jadeja: बृहणिय महाकषाय - increases mams dhatu or meda dhatu???  I think..if mamsa dhatu xay- bruhaniya mahakashay will be useful and if mamsa dhatu is ok or no कार्श्य present- balya mahakashay will be useful to increase quality of muscles
Dr. Yogin Patel: Aja rakt basti? Can it help?
Dr. Hiral Sengal: yes .  in karshy..balya maja kashay & in mamsa shy...bruhniya...
Vd. Yashpalsinh Jadeja: aja rakt basti more useful in thalasemia or other  blood loss..
Vd. Rahul Botadara: if anyone has prectial experience of aja rakt basti so please share hear
Dr. Sachinkumar Jinture: Plz if possible Descripation of Mamsa dhatu From Sharir to Chikitsa .....normal abnormal in both condition as well as its updhatu too..
--------------------------------- end of comments from group 3 ------------------------
Compilation courtesy: Vd. Kinshuk Hirpara

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