Views shared by several ayurveda professionals and non-ayurveda people in discussion group:
All views shared here are only for knowledge. This information doesn’t have any scientific validation. Various doctors and non-medicos have shared their views and experiences in this discussion. Please do not try any of the suggestions described here, without prior consult from your regular, qualified doctor. Dr. Prerak Shah and no other person is responsible for any unwanted effects, side effects or contra-indications in your health. Thank you.
File with all photos, is available on Flinnt.com.
For details abt flinnt.com and how to download the file, please whatsapp me.
(Any ayurveda or medical doctor, If you like this activity, and wants to be a part of this chat discussion on whatsapp, please send in your request. Whatsapp your full name, city / country name, short intro to +91-9824243567. Thank you.)
Next topic for discussion: Concept of 13 Agni....
USA Gary Yuen: Is there a place to refer to? I think it's mentioned in Caraka cikit 8.38?
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Types of 13 agni. 1.Jathragni 2-6. Panchbhutagni 7-13. Spata dhtwagni
When we eating food it converts first by jathragni then it converts by bhutagni and then the role of dhtwagni to nutrition of dhatu etc(Sara) & kitta(mala).
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: Agni or Digestive fire the prime agency to convert food into the form required by the body for digestion and then absorbtion. Too much of digestive fire is bad, same is true for extremely low. One needs Agni in equilibrium. The prime factor governing AGNI IS Mind or MAN. IF THE PERSON IS HAPPY IT REMAINS IN EQUILIBRIUM OTHERWISE IT GETS IMBALANCED. THE EFFECT OF SEASON ALSO PLAYS MAJOR ROLE IN MAINTAINING AGNI.
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: According to modern medicine, metabolic processes, division and multiplication are going on in all cells (dhatu paramanu) of our body from birth till death. The cell is the functional unit of the body. According to Charak, the constituent parts of the body, if further divided into the atoms, are sure to become innumerable, as such cells or atoms are exceedingly numerous, very minute and ultrasensory. In the conjunction and disjunction of cells, the activating factors areVataand the nature of action (Cha. sha.7/17). In Shushrut, we can see how the “Avayavaas” are formed from “variousdhatus”(Su.Sha.4/25-30). Thus, based on Charak and Shushrut, the above cells can be considered as “dhatu paramanus.” For these constant processes in all cells, a biological energy is constantly essential, without which the survival of our body will be quite impossible. The same biological energy is provided byAgniin Ayurveda. ThisAgni-provided biological energy in the cells (dhatu paramanu) of our body is of two types: potential and kinetic. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3221079/
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: Same is applicable to drinking of water. People drinking a lot of water even when not thirsty, also have weak Digestive fire or Agni.
USA Gary Yuen: Caraka cikitsa 15 discusses symptoms of weak agni. Is there a place with more detail? Astang hrdyam?
Dr. Pramod Nakarde:
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: can we consider BMR ( Basal Metabolic Rate) as indicator for *Dehagni Karma* in any line ? i want to listen the merits and opps from गुरुजन and all the members . Is there any work done in this regard please post the reference and material ? Its an interesing idea. Here by Dehagni u means all the companant agni qhich is present in all cells?? Kayagni - specifically Dhatvagni . BMR is the marker of the sum total of the reacrion of al the tissues and all reactions in one way or the other involve transfer of energy. And it is the function of the dehagni. So it can be a possiblity. E.g. we say there is increased functions of dehagni or dhatvagni in hyperthyroidism and we know there is an increase of BMR in hyoerthyroidism.. The word देहाग्नि is used by अग्निवेश for जाठराग्नि..च चि 15 While basal metabolic rate is complex summation of समान वायु, धात्वाग्निस्वेन तेनोष्मण चैव कृत्वा देहोष्मणो बलम्||१३०|| च चि 1
1स्वेनेति दोषोष्मणा; 2तेनेति जाठराग्न्यूष्मणा | 3देहोष्मण इति सकलदेहचारिणः प्राकृतोष्मणः| चक्रपाणि
There are 3 ooshma/agni in body ... These are different from bhootaagni & dhaatvagni
As we say jatharagni and dhatwagni have been named differently because of the functional and locational differences.
क्या ये दोषोष्मणा, जाठरग्नि उष्मा, एवम देहोष्मा का वर्गीकरण भी इसी प्रकार किया गया है या इस तरह के वर्गीकरण का कोइ अन्य हेतु व विचार है?
Its Cha chi 3/130... देहोष्मण इति सकलदेहचारिणः प्राकृतोष्मणः.. वातश्लेष्मणोस्तु यद्यपि पितूतवदुष्मा नास्ति तथापि तयोर्भूतत्वेन उष्मा योस्ति, स इह ग्राह्यः.. वक्तव्यं हि ग्रहण्यध्याये.. भौमाप्याग्नेयवायव्याः पंचोष्माणः सनाभसाः ईति. It all comes under 13 agnis. देहोष्मा is because of pitta. Ushma may mean the innate heat factor . Agni or dehagni though has heat factor , but it may not be always evident/manifested all the time so there could be some difference functionally. In many context authors use specific ushma or agni in context. The ushma is expression of agni thus that many ushma exists for so many agni... innumerable .One extra term is dehoshma which is prakriti bhuta. Doshagni, bhutagni, dhatwagni, jatharagni, dehagni i.e. kayagni amsha. A total of 13 and dehagni becomes 14. With addition of doshagni they become 17. But the cumulation of jatharagni doshagni and kayagniamsha is dehagni. It is pronounced as jatharagni but when ever specifically to say the impairment told with relative term.
अग्नि ➡ क्रियारूप जरण शक्तियुक्त, देहोष्मणा➡ परिणाम रुप
इति भौतिकधात्वन्नपकतृणां कर्म भाषितम् ।च.चि.15/38
( यान्यग्नितराणि उपधातुमलादिगतानि तान्यप्यावरुद्धानि भुताग्निष्वेव किंवा अप्राधान्यात अन्यान्य किंचित्कराणि नोक्तानि।) regarding Agni from other group,
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal:
Kostaha kruro mrudarmadhyo madhyaha syataihi samairapi,
Tairbhavai dvishamo teekshno mandaschagnihi samai samaha.( A.H. Sutrasthana 1st chapter. )
3types of kosta, krura-Vata dominant, Mrudu-Pitta dominant, Madhya-Kapha dominant.
4types of agni, Vishamagni-Vata dominant, Teeksha-Pitta dominant, Manda-Kapha dominant, Samaagni- equbilirium of dosha.
Canada Nitin Shah: Agni is a biological igniting force which governs metabolism. The English term ignite comes from the Sanskrit word Agni.
Slovenia Anoop S. Anand: When agni is less in quality (Mandagni) it will cause many diseases (“Rogaha Sarvepi Mande Agnou”)
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Depends on jeernashakti(apatite) we see agnibala, because kosta is the function sthana of pachakapitta, samanavayu, ranjaka pitta, kledaka kapha. Apatite & Digestion.
Slovenia Anoop S. Anand: Agni is innumerable because of its presence in each and every paramanu of the body. But, the enumeration of the number of Agni Ayu. Medknow Publications, Physiological aspects of Agni, Akash Kumar Agrawal, C. R. Yadav, and M. S. Meena
Additional article information
Agni is the invariable agent in the process of Paka (digestion, transformation). Ingested food is to be digested, absorbed and assimilated, which is unavoidable for the maintenance of life, and is performed by the Agni. Different examples are available in our classics to indicate that Pitta is the same as Agni, but some doubt arises behind this concept, that Pitta is Agni. Agni is innumerable because of its presence in each and every paramanu of the body. But, the enumeration of the number of Agni varies in various classical Ayurvedic texts. According to the functions and site of action, Agni has been divided into 13 types, i.e. one Jatharagni, five Bhutagni and seven Dhatvagni. Jatharagni is the most important one, which digests four types of food and transforms it into Rasa and Mala. The five Bhutagnis act on the respective bhutika portion of the food and thereby nourish the Bhutas in the body. The seven Dhatvagni act on Ayu. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3221079/)
Vd. Khyati Jariwala: I think that - V can't co relate all five Pitt vid agni.. E.g...if v take ghee....it vl do PITT SHAMAN and on the contrary AGNI PRADIPTI Pitt is Drava,snigdha,adhogaami where as agni is ruksha n urdhvagaami. SO..agni n Pitt r two different things??!!!!!
Australia Vd. Neerja Ahuja: Mandagni main cause of disease. Simple thing to take at home is ginger or trikatu to enhance Agni.
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Pitta=Agni+Jal mahabhut. Agni is Pure Aagney (Shabda, sparsh, rupa gunyukta)
Dr. Pramod Nakarde:
Slovenia Anoop S. Anand: As per Panchamahabhuta siddhant and tridosha concept - Pitta is a combination of Agni mahabhuta and Aap Mahabhuta...Ghrita is cooling and pitta shamak but if it comes in contact with agni it helps in increasing agni...like if we burn say 50 gms of charcoal and pour 1 teaspoon of ghee...fire will increase...same way if we pour 10 kilograms of ghee over 50gms of burning charcoal the fire will extinguish..here sheeta guna of aap mahabhuta present in Ghrita will overpower the ushna guna of teja mahabhuta in fire and extinguish it...So ghritas agni deepan guna holds true only till the Ushna guna of Jatharagni is higher than the overall sheeta guna of ghrita(depending on the total quantity consumed)..if vice versa jatharagni will be extinguished
Dr. Rinku Shah: We can say just without spirit we become just body like that without kayagni we r becoming just body not chaturvishanti purush. So death body is always cold. So kaychikitsa is known as Agnichikitsa
Ayulink: All of the above there is more important of Jatharagni into Chikitsa & Digestive System. There is problems of Jatharagni are Manda Agni & Tivra Agni. Tivra Agni should be control by Pruthavi Mahabhuta Dravya like Guru, Shita,etc. Mand Agni should be control by Pruthavi Mahabhuta Dravya like Lagu, Ushna,etc.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: There are Malagni too, Astang sangraha said.
Dr. Pravin Tirmare: Where ? shlok
Dr. Ramesh Deshmukh: 13 agni are commonly known and use in treatment thoughts. specific dravyas are mentioned concerned with relative agni like rasa dhatuagni dravyas etc. never came across mala agni. please share information
Vd. Sachin Kadlag: In viruddha aahar description , there is one type agni viruddha also. It can be understood as follows. Let's understand first what is agni and it's types with definition. Agni in short means digestive power. It is of 4 types .1. Sama agni 2. Manda agni 3. Tikshna agni 4. Vishama agni.
1. Sama agni :- the digestive power which digests , only appropriate food taken in appropriate dose in appropriate way is called sama agni. agni is sama when all vata, pitta and kapha are balanced.
2. Manda agni :- the digestive power which digests food very late (means digests very slowly) whether it is appropriate or inappropriate. agni is manda when kapha dosha is dominant.
3. Tikshna agni :- the digestive power which digests food very early (means digests very fast) whether it is appropriate or inappropriate. agni is tikshna when pitta dosha is dominant.
4. Vishama agni :- the digestive power which digests appropriate food late and inappropriate food early.
Agni is vishama when vata dosha is dominant.
Now accordingly following conditions can be listed under agni viruddha criteria.
1. When a person has sama agni , then eating or drinking inappropriate food or in appropriate quantity or in inappropriate way or at inappropriate time is agni viruddha in this condition.
2. When a person has manda agni , then eating or drinking food which is heavy to digest or eating food in more quantity or eating food which enhances kapha is agni viruddha in this condition.
3. When a person has tikshna agni , then eating or drinking food which is very light to digest or eating food in less quantity or eating food which increases pitta is agni viruddha in this condition.
4. When a person has vishama agni , then eating food which increases vata is agni viruddha in this condition.
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: Samanyam vriddhi karanam hrasa hetu viparyascha. Samana guna cause for vriddhi & viparita guna cause for kshaya of dosha. A.H. Sutrasthana 1st chapter.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Agni is only one. Agni works at level of particular dhatu has given name of that Dhatu. There are 5 Mahabhoota and 5 agni of these 5 mahabhootas.
All dhatus are made up of 5 Mahabhoota, then how can differ Dhatvagnis from Bhutagnis? If we accept Dhatvagni then there is also Malagni.. As Astanga Samgraha has stated in Function of Purisha. Purisha's function is holding of Vayu and Agni...
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Agni is only One. as per function and sthan, names given. व्यवच्छेदक लक्षण क्रिया के अधीन।
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Logically: Irshya Agni, Chinta Agni & krodha Agni must also be included as it also affect the swasthya (health).
Dr. J. T. Contractor: We say Chinta chita samaan hai, Ghsse ki Aagme jalna, Irshya se jalte hai.... Etc this it
Ayulink: Can we interpret Agni as bio-chemical converters in the body?
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: Yes. But it gets disturbed with Stress.
Ayulink: At tissue level, at cellular level and at system level. System or organ level too?
Dr. Devesh Kumar: Irshya chinta krodha is chitta vritti not again.
Ayulink: Does Agni mean anabolism, ketabolism and metabolism or something more than these?
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Co- relate Agni with metabolism. Jathragni & bhutagni for catabolism & dhtwagni for anabolism??
Dr. J. T. Contractor: Agni is urja shakti works as Udipak ( catalyst) for the transformation of food in to energy,tha Agnis we talked above are also Udipak,if we talk about even the logical Agnis say for example krodha Agni in which salivary glands stop secreting saliva mouth becomes dry, given a glass of water as needed badly both the way to cool down anger & to moisten drying mouth, in absence of saliva enzymes don't secret to digest foods that shows the physically & biochemically disorder generation so one can prove the chitta Agnis in toto can affect body.
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: Under stress Agni never works anywhere. If one investigates CRP LEVEL IS MORE. SAMATA IS CAUSED
Dr. Uday H. Hanagal: When Person used to prepair & have the food along with kama, krodha, bhaya, shoka, chinta, moha etc, it efects badly to product the aama (main cause for disease), because suksma part of the food gives nourishment to the mana, buddhi, aatma. This is the ref. of A.H. Sutrasthaana.
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: Ayurved has already said- TAN MANA BHUNJIT.WHILE PREPARING FOOD ALSO ONE NEEDS TO BE CHEERFUL. IT AFFECTS THE QUALITY OF FOOD, TASTE. We do see if the person cooking is in not mood, I'll it does changes the taste of the cooked food
Vd. Mahavir Vora: Achintanam atichinta one of rasdhatu dusti factor in the same way all type of immotnail felling might get hazard or benifeted.
Dr. J. T. Contractor: I observed usually ladies (pl forgive I humbly narrate with due respect), looking detective & friction serials, suffered acidity at initially later turned in to acidity & further turned into ulcers, isn't connected with logic affected the biochemistry!
Dr. Ravindra Upadhyay: While having food no TV, NO CHIT CHAT ONLY CHEWING OF FOOD AND ENJOY THE FOOD. NO MOBILE. NO WHATTSAP ETC
Dr Sandeep kakuste Nandurbar: And chewing 32 times is good sir
Dr. Bhadresh Naik: Jatheragni only play role of digestion of food. Dhatvagni play a role to balance of dhatu and nourishing them strength them do normal function of them. So, we have focus on both agni. That's why acharya clear mention about santarpan and aptarpan. Kedrikulya nayay, Dhatu poshak dravya Of course presipacting factor must be avoid. That why kayak, Mansik, Vachik karme must be done with present of mind With awareness and positive fram of mind I think most of disease may control. Prasan man indriya atma ang agni will help to remains healthy by mentally and physically disorder. Similar to ras virya vipak of food our attitudes, Manner,Speech, Manobhav, Tolerance, Chinta, Bhay, Shock, Irsiya, Badle ki bhavna Play vital roll on agni.. How Depression, Anxiety, StressChange the hormones, Imbalanced the hormones….Activated the vagus nerve its regulate the hormones and juice to promote the agni- It's week the agni normal work- Leads to agnimandya- According to ayurved agnimadya sarve rog mulam.
Vd. Pankaj Chhayani: Agni mainly work as bio transformation. If u close your both ear with help of fingers and u listen sound like fire that denotes Agni is still working in your body, and if sound is not listened then its Arishta Laxana.. Hormones , enzymes or others chemical have power of bio transformation is called Agni..
There is 3 types of Agni in ancient text:- 1) Gnanaagni 2) Darshanaagni 3) Jatharaagni
Bhutagnis work at minute level, while jatharagni works more gross level.
Dr. Pramod Nakarde: Yavantah purushe murtimanto bhavvishesha. Shareer me jitne bhavvishesha h UN
Dr. Vidhi Joshi: Ref. post- Digestive Fire
Avoid eating in between meals (no snacking; let your huger—and fire—build)Sip warm fluids (avoid cold and carbonated drinks; drinking just hot water throughout the day will stoke your digestive fire, improve digestion, and help prevent the accumulation of ama)Sit down to eat, chew well, and avoid passive entertainment while you eat (no TV, computer, cell phone, tablets or even reading)Make lunch the most important (biggest) meal of the day (eat like a king during the day, and a pauper at night); digestion is strongest at midday; avoid heavy dinners (think brothy soups and light salads)Spice it up! Add spices to your meals like fresh ginger, cumin, black pepper, turmeric, and fenugreek. These contain properties that will enhance your digestion and weight loss goals.Eat less, live longer. Watch your portions (skip the second or third helping and push away from the table before you reach maximum fullness).Eat foods filled with Prana (“life”); no processed, packaged or even reheated/leftover foods. Avoid bad but popular combinations that will weaken your fire: milk with meat, fish, eggs, bananas, yogurt, and sour fruits; eggs with milk, meat, fish, yogurt, cheese, fruits or beans; fresh fruits with any other foods (eat them alone but avoid eating fresh fruit as dessert)Respect the 24-hour solar day: Time your meals to maximize your body’s inherent preferences for turning on its digestive fire. The ideal schedule: Breakfast between 7:00 and 8:00 a.m. Don’t eat a lot of food after 9:00 a.m. Lunch, (largest and most important meal of the day) between noon and 1:00 p.m.Dinner (which should consist of a light meal) before 7:00 p.m. Avoid ever being wakeful between 10 pm and 2:00 am— Immune Function
Fast a few times a year, or at least once a season(“detox on the equinox”): four different fasting protocols—from least to most vigorous—entail the following:Consuming light, easily digestible foods only, such as khichadi, soupy broths, and warm herbal teas.Eating fruits, vegetables, or fresh juices only.Avoiding solid foods and drinking water or herbal teas.Pursue your passions and live to the fullest of your unique self: Strive to align your goals and values with your talents and passions in a job that supports your livelihood, and allows you to feel appreciated and needed in the world at large. And don’t forget to make room for fun and laugher in whatever job you pursue. The act of laughter itself will make you feel lighter and heighten your sense of awareness. A belly full of laughs is a hot belly indeed.
USA Gary Yuen: For amount of food, Caraka Su 25/40 says eating once a day helps for perfect absorption. It’s said also, a yogi eats once a day, a bhogi twice, and a rogi 3 times. With good agni, do people believe eating once a day will provide needed nutrition and no more is needed?
Dr. Ujwala Said:
Vd. sandeep Ahirkar:
Vd. Dhruti Kagrana: Agni (Fire) :- The secret and basis of our physical, mental, sensual and spiritual health....
Germany Helga Fuchs: Jatheragni only play role of digestion of food. Dhatvagni play a role to balance of dhatu and nourishing them strength them do normal function of them. So, we have focus on both agni. That's why acharya clear mention about santarpan and aptarpan. Kedrikulya ... YES, Dr. Badresh, this I think to. My experiences show this ...
Dr. Malathi Arjun: Agni or the “digestive fire,” is one of the most important principles in the ancient science of ayurveda. It refers broadly to our ability to process all aspects of life, including food, experiences, memories, and sensory impressions. Agni is responsible for absorbing the nutrients and essential elements the body needs while burning off waste products (agni is the root of the English word “ignite”). If our agni is strong, we’re able to digest food efficiently and easily assimilate our daily experiences. On the other hand, if agni is weak, our body won’t digest well, creating toxic residue or ama that lodges deep in our cells. According to ayurvedic teaching, strong agni leads to excellent health and well-being, while the accumulation of ama results in the slow deterioration of the body and—ultimately—disease. The inability to metabolize emotions produces just as much toxic residue as undigested food. In fact, pent-up anger, long-held sadness, and lingering guilt are more debilitating for most people than problems with physical digestion.
Vd. sandeep Ahirkar: What's about panchabhutagni
Dr. Lokesh Raturi: Agni is a flame like energy we can call it jeevan Jyoti which is divided intot 13 types as per it's location and work in body. Base Agni is digestive fire Jatharagni from where base material for body is digested and absorbed. Then Dhatuagni comes in action to transform digested material for each dhatu. Overall Bhutagni keeps control for elemental balance like their should be enough space in body that air can move freely. There should be always a spark to candle other Agni. There should be enough temperature to maintain body fluids to flow freely like high can evaporate and low can condense. There should be balance of solid matter in body, imbalance can lead over weight, over growth fibrosis if Agni is less and depletion, loss of muscle and tissue when it is more. All other Agni take their part from Jatharagni like a boiler supplies steam to different places. Langhan, shrotas shodan amapachan and upvas helps to balance all Agni.
Dr. Madhuri Patil Chaudhari: Agni is that entity, which if Sam or well-balanced by aahar, vihar, vichar, aachar along with Vihar Chikitsa, keeps Ageing at bay. Agni is Ayurakshak. As humans age, Agni is the 1st one even before tridoshas, to get imbalanced, which starts all etiology of diseases. Enzymes can be corelated with Agni. Working like Catalyst but not part of reactions (catabolisn or anabolism) or products of metabolism. Agni like enzymes Create, build, maintain, or destoy all types of tissues in the body without being a part of any of these processess. as per my understanding.
Dr. Sachin Utpat: Agni is the only thing on the earth which make everything pure that comes in its contact. Agni has actually only two properties viz laghu and ruksha. From ashtang sangraha difference between agni and pitta is that when it leaves dravata it is been called as agni त्यक्त द्रवत्वं पाकादि कर्मणा अनल शब्दितम् The first ever verse on this earth that is first rucha from rigveda starts with agni अग्निमिळे पुरोहितम्....
Vd. sandeep Ahirkar: In ashtang sangrah that's description comes for pachak pitta. Then can we consider that pachak pitta as agni?? Agni means jatharagni I am talking about.
Compilation courtesy: Vd. Dhruti Kagrana